Does God exist? I'd like to be clear in my mind

I think the story goes that Jesus was a Jewish messiah, and would maybe have been forgotten, except as a possible candidate for Isaiah's prophecies, but for St Paul who altered the story of the local Jewish Jesus to be suited to the Romans.

I doubt if the early church was bothered about people in darkest Africa, or hunter gatherers and stuff. The early church was a great means of social control and the Romans really liked it.

I think modern believers have different ways of 'believing'. No doubt some of them believe exactly what the minister tells them to believe.

What I struggle to understand is how folk believe the Jesus story. Can someone please tell me why God waited hundreds of thousands of years before sending a saviour who was unknown to most folk on earth at the time. Didn’t all the humans before biblical times matter one jot and if not, why not? Did he think Africans and other folk in far flung corners of the earth weren’t important?

Lindiloo wrote:

"I would so like to believe!" I guess everyone would like to believe this world is ordered by a loving supreme being.

Existence precedes essence. That means : to the extent that people live the goodness of god to that extent god lives.

Hetty If you believe that God exists, then for you He does.

Its a belief system, so asking whether he exists or not isn't a question that can be answered; you can only believe, or not. I don't believe, and am more of a humanist. We should be looking to ourselves to solve the world's problems: praying is no use.

lindiloo if you really would “so like to believe” then why not do some research instead of rolling out the old “if God was a loving God he would not let this happen”.
What do you think believing is. A nice cosy blanket that shields you from suffering. I do so wish it was. Believing in God is really hard on occasions. I struggle every day

If god exists, he must be all-powerful.

I read once, 'To find the truth, seek out all evidence to the contrary.'

I would like to believe in a kind, loving god, but using the above formula it's obvious that if there is a god, he's neither kind nor loving.

Think of all the grief and suffering in the world - today, and in the past. God could have stopped that, yet he didn't.

This very minute, there will be people dying in great pain, babies being born dead, children starving, lovers heartbroken ...

The evidence just doesn't weigh-up for the existence of an omnipotent, good and loving, 'god'!

I wish it did. I would so like to believe!

Faith helps. Depending on how strong your faith is.
I believe. Always have. Couldn’t explain to anyone why. It’s just there. My faith is not strong enough. Having faith does not mean you don’t suffer. People who believe are not immune to the hurt in this world. I have been having some serious talks with God recently. I could really do with some help at the moment. It may come, it may not. I don’t know everything, why this or that happens.
Some people think that if you have faith you sail through life leaving everything to God without a worry in the world. I think that is possible but only for those with the greatest and upmost faith. The rest of us suffer just as much as everyone else - we just have a tiny glimmer of hope that somewhere in this life or the next we will find peace.
If you have never experienced peace you cannot imaging what a wonderful feeling it is. Better than anything in the world. I felt that once in Salisbury Cathedral for a few minutes whilst reading the words written on the font. It didn’t last long but oh what joy.

Hetty Maud, the reason religions exist is so people will follow the same moral code. Religions include stories that explain human moral problems and what to do about them.

Like everybody else you will need to decide for yourself whether or not you believe the stories literally happened as if they are actual history. There are churches you can go to where you are not expected to believe these stories about God are actual history, but are true like [poetry is true.

Atheists often, unfortunately for themselves, reject all the God stories . This is because it does not occur to some atheists that there are more important meanings than the literal meanings.

I think kindness and compassion counts for a lot Luckygirl and “do unto others....” is a great ideal to live by.

If some have a faith which helps them cope better with life I won’t criticise.

I believe this life is the one life that we have with no afterlife or supernatural gods. This belief helps me to live life to the full, and in the way best way I can.

I do not think it even matters whether there is a god or gods. Just live your life, having kindness and honesty as your goals.

I am neither a committed Christian nor have I a degree in religious studies, but I do perceive that there is a lot of guff spoken and written by those who confuse the "evil" that they believe religion brings and the capacity for selfishness, greed, cruelty, and sheer wickedness that is part of the complex personality of human beings. It is people who cause the evil that abounds in the world, not this, that or the other faith.

There are facets of what is taught by some people in the name of a faith which can cause humans to do evil things -for instance, to punish those who they think are breaking some divine law or other, despite the clear statement " 'Vengeance is mine' says the Lord" - that is, "The Lord will take care of it, don't YOU start taking vengeance on his behalf!"

Then there is the tendency of some to assign the tenets of one faith system to the real beliefs of another. Gnostic confuses Christianity with the books of the Old Testament. Christianity was "a new covenant" made between God and man, through his son, Christ. It owed a lot to the old covenant with the Jews, but it was not identical. Much was rejected.

Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice. - confusing Christians of the New Covenant with previous pre-Christian history from the outdated bloodthirsty tradition of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" again, Gnostic

Lots of evil hatred from Gnostic showing up on this thread, trying enthusiastically to sow the seeds of dissent around, but mostly revealing clearly his/her own prejudice and misanthropy.

Gosh what a lot of confidence that there are/not cannot be gods - how do we know that? Just because at the moment we don't know, we cannot assume. There is so much we know and understand now that even 50 years ago would have been roundly dismissed - now I'm talking of the world of science and tech. Try imaging explaining You Tube to your great gran....

People are fallible (unable to cope with what life throws at us, weak, silly, at times plain evil). Societies have devised various ways of dealing with these things - legal and social pressures and structures. BUT belief in something 'other' supporting, guiding us can help us be better people. It is not a matter of some external reality but of something which helps us function. When we say we BELIEVE - that is what we mean - we do not aim to KNOW or UNDERSTAND. It just works. Religions and gods are only to be followed to the extent they support the sort of society we want to develop - it is a bit 'buyer beware'. Not everyone seems to need it - my OH is fine with me being quite active at church - he just does not feel he needs it.

For those who believe no proof is necessary for those who don't believe no proof is possible

I feel incredible sad that I don’t have deep beliefs I would so much like to be someone who has such complete comfort that faith brings Of course it doesn’t mean bad things won’t happen but with firm belief it makes them more bearable I think I struggle so much with this can’t believe we are just here for this mean and miserable resistance but also can’t see anything beyond it

I was raised in strict catholism and had no religious education other than nun-delivered catechism, allowing my parents to gain a religious exclusion from school RE. Also raised to be curious, I struggled from an early age with the illogicality of Miracles all of which caused me to reject the lot of it in my teens. It did however cause a great curiosity and I’ve maintained a life long interest in the practices of other religions.
I truly believe in good and bad, dark and light, positive and negative and that striving to be a good and thoughtful person, doing no harm to others whilst caring deeply for those around you is the only true way. As for a God, I believe he/she is simply a personification of the good, a guiding force, culturally variable due to geographical isolation. This idea of a God has been corrupted over time the world over into something that can be manipulated by bad people to further their own agenda (history supports that theory time and again).
As regards judgement, I think we form our own in times of crisis through self-questioning, and ultimately perhaps at the moment of death.

God in the form of a helpless baby.

Can't you see how god is our responsibility to discover and care for god? The book of Rules,which is how some people regard The Bible , is not enough. It's our duty to interpret these rules. The life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth helps us to interpret these rules.

Amen to that Kathy1959

As a Christian, I’m happy to accept that not everyone is. In fact the Bible is quite clear that only a third of mankind will be saved. All I would say to non Christians, after I’ve tried to talk to them about Jesus, and they’ve scoffed, is it’s fine to disbelieve a book which was written by hundreds of people over thousands of years, as long as they’re consistent, and disbelieve any history book. In fact, anything before the oldest person on the planet can confirm! Of course, this applies to all evolutionary writings as well. In fact , history books show that Darwin supposedly refuted all this on his death bed, but of course, not everyone is going to believe history books!! The question we’re always being asked is why does God allow suffering? Well, if you read the Bible, you would see that nowhere does he promise perfection in this life, only the next. All you have to do is choose it. You have free will, which He wants, not hundreds of little “ robots “ following Him and not knowing why. The choice is yours. As a Christian, I don’t gain anything from you becoming one. It’s up to you. God bless.

Rosecarmel, I guess "the dangers of black-and-white thinking and the need for true humility in a time of angry polarization"

is also your personal opinion. I agree. When an ideology is unexamined and not filtered through individuals' reason that ideology is idolatry.

I regret your message was deleted, Gnostic. Could you possibly rephrase it minus whatever it was offended the moderator?

Megan Phelps Roper is the grand daughter of Fred Phelps who was the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church - Her book, a memoir, titled Unfollow was recently released -

Here's the Amazon summary:

"At the age of five, Megan Phelps-Roper began protesting homosexuality and other alleged vices alongside fellow members of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. Founded by her grandfather and consisting almost entirely of her extended family, the tiny group would gain worldwide notoriety for its pickets at military funerals and celebrations of death and tragedy. As Phelps-Roper grew up, she saw that church members were close companions and accomplished debaters, applying the logic of predestination and the language of the King James Bible to everyday life with aplomb―which, as the church’s Twitter spokeswoman, she learned to do with great skill. Soon, however, dialogue on Twitter caused her to begin doubting the church’s leaders and message: If humans were sinful and fallible, how could the church itself be so confident about its beliefs? As she digitally jousted with critics, she started to wonder if sometimes they had a point―and then she began exchanging messages with a man who would help change her life.

A gripping memoir of escaping extremism and falling in love, Unfollow relates Phelps-Roper’s moral awakening, her departure from the church, and how she exchanged the absolutes she grew up with for new forms of warmth and community. Rich with suspense and thoughtful reflection, Phelps-Roper’s life story exposes the dangers of black-and-white thinking and the need for true humility in a time of angry polarization"

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