sceptics or deniers?

Hi all. Whatever! Made my point.

As for me, well I'm proud to be sceptical about everything, so call me a sceptic if you need to call me something.

But don't call me to early in the morning.

CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS - ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHED!!!

DENIER is a term used all the time in the media; it has never once crossed my mind that it had anything to do with the holocaust - and I don't think it does in most peoples minds. But even if there is a tenuous connection why does it matter? It is clear to many people, based on scientific evidence, that if we do not deal with the situation (whether it be man-made or not), and we reach "tipping point", then it will be a far worse catastrophe for human beings than anything that has happened so far to human beings on this planet.........and other life forms too, presumably including elephants and ostriches.

Holocaust deniers are denying something that happened in the past; climate change deniers are denying something that is looming ahead of us if we do not act - but something that we could do something about if we set our minds to it (although many scientists believe it is too late to prevent tipping point)

I don't know why deniers deny the holocaust but I've a good idea why climate change is denied: its all about money and oil and multi-nationals and transnationals - think neocons, Tea Party and, yes, neoliberals.

Come to think of it denying is very prevalent in humans - like the denial of poverty for instance - but you 'aint seen nothin yet once climate change gets going in Africa and other third world countries (which will mostly be our fault)

Language is power and its subliminal influence should not be discounted. How you say something influences what you are saying, so if you want others to believe you....

I believe it is already happening and once it affects those that choose not to believe then and only then things will start to change. By then it will be far too late. I for one absolutely hate living in a country where its now normal for the temperatures to reach 40C - 45C plus each and every summer. This has been happening continually here for the last ten years. Some people seem to think 40C is the same as 100F but its not it is 37.7 and those few degrees make a lot of difference. When the temperature continually reaches 45C it very very hot and the temperature in farenheit is 113. It is like living in an oven and when the winds start to pick up and there has been a drought, bush fires become a very dangerous certainty.
It might be fine for those of you who live in a cold climate but you are not cooking during your summer!!!!!!

Well, I'm glad your use of the word deniers wasn't a slur, carbon. That's a relief . But I agree with ariadne about the power of language so I think we need to be careful of our diction and our 'tone' (not that tone is detectable easily in an online forum). Also, just to explain myself a little, it is the way people use language that has influenced me most on this issue. I used to think the same way as those of you who are frightened of climate change but the way the warmist side uses language alerted me to something fishy so I started to investigate sceptical views (in the last five years). It was a shock to see the difference, and gradually over the last few years I have become much calmer about the whole thing and my natural optimism in humanity has come back to the fore. Maybe it was my natural atheism – which is also a powerful form of scepticism – that had the most effect. You see, to be honest, people who are in a tizwaz about global waming talk too much like evangelical preachers for my taste. It almost doesn't matter what they say now because the way they say it and the dishonest devices that are used all the time are a complete turn off.

I think you can spend too much time looking things up. Something like this, you've got to decide for yourself. Global warming is happening. There is no doubt about that. Whether it is caused by our doings, or is a natural change such as been experienced over the centuries, who knows for sure?

It's just common sense to do all you can to reduce your carbon footprint and to teach the next generation to do the same.

It's called hedging your bets.

Yes JJ it is happening and yes we do have to make up our own minds how we as individuals deal with it. Reducing our carbon footprints is a sensible and obvious thing to do. However I wonder if you'd agree with me - that I have never read anything by Bagitha that contradicts that. She has never advocated a 'carry on regardless' attitude and has never suggested that we can be wasteful and profligate with resources. As I read it she, and others, are saying that constant nagging results in 'switching off' by the listener and that we should take an open-minded (or sceptical) approach. Apologies to B if I am guilty of putting words in your mouth and getting it wrong!

No apology necessary, em. You're assessment is quite right. I try to live as 'green' a life as possible. I also try not to worry too much because worrrying doesn't seem to achieve very much. Also, although there are cries about government doing nothing, government is in fact giving massive subsidies (from taxpayers' money, so we're all doing something) to wind technology, to solar technology and to general climate research.

for brightening my day jingle

Bagitha I'm saying this gently, but you do need to practise what you preach and consider your use of language!
I, and many others are not 'frightened' of climate change, rather we are concerned about it and the effects it will have on all of us now and in the future (see Faye's post). Frightened suggests quivering and quaking, feeling powerless, which we are not. You can see from the posts that we are actually 'doing our bit' as I am sure you are.
You go on to mention:
'people who are in a tizwaz about global warming'
Again that sort of 'lumps us together' as people incapable of rational thought.
We all have our own views, passionately felt, please allow us to continue to do so without dismissing us.
I am also concerned to know what you mean by 'dishonest devices that are used all the time'.
N.B. This has been written without rancour.

Point(s) taken, OGM and no hard feelings . Mea culpa! But I don't mean to be dismissive. I wouldn't join in these threads if I had dismissed the issues or the people involved (all of us). I apologise for 'frightened' and 'tizwaz', especially tizwaz. I have genuinely felt that some people are frightened about the future of the planet though. The words were not meant to be dismissive but I realise now that they could seem so.

By dishonest devices, I mean things that have come out in news stories about adjustments to temperature, readings taken from limited sites, the claim that polar bear numbers were falling when in fact they're steady, stories suggesting that there are more (or more severe) hurricanes/floods/droughts, etc "because of climate change" when there is no evidence for this and there is, in fact, evidence to the contrary in some cases — I'm thinking of hurricanes and severe storms in particular. The number of severe hurricanes has gone down in the last century, not up. Damage to human property may have gone up but that's because there is more human property in places where the hurricanes tend to hit land, not because the hurricanes are worse. And so on. That kind of misleading reporting strikes me as dishonest and it's this dishonesty that makes me sceptical. I don't trust the IPCC or the mainstream media to tell me the truth.

Thanks for the clarification Bagitha.....Sadly, I shall be contributing to global warming by driving to Yorkshire tomorrow I plan on letting the train take the strain tho' in December!

We went to see a play about global warming at our village hall the other year; in it the whole world flooded. It was meant to be a black comedy [which I usually like] but it really upset me. Perhaps it's because I'm wedged between the rivers Trent and Derwent ....

I'm not a great one for 'labels', having had far too many attached to me by others in the past. However, if I were to call myself something regarding this thread on the Environment, it would be 'a realist'.

I firmly believe that Mother Nature will do what it does. I embrace it, enjoy it, I care for it and I respect it.

Back to the subject of tights. While on holiday I asked my daughter in law to come up with an alternative word for denier: it was very difficult as there are not that many words that come anywhere near fitting - but in the end we concluded the nearest was:

ERISTIC

which none of us had ever hear of..........

I googled it! he he he

It's got nothing to do with stockings.

Well no - but socks maybe. As in we should all pull our socks up etc.

"Eristic, from the ancient Greek word Eris meaning wrangle or strife, often refers to a type of argument where the participants fight and quarrel without any reasonable goal.

The aim usually is to win the argument and/or to engage into a conflict for the sole purpose of wasting time through arguments,"

(wickipedia)

We wouldn't do that would we? As if!