Never will go to Malta again...

Game shooting (including grouse) in the UK is managed. Whether or not you agree with it the birds are healthy, not exhausted during migration, and stand a fair chance of getting away. Grouse are 'farmed' birds which are shot for a reason - they're a lucrative food product.

Wild birds are often safer in an area that's used for shooting game birds.

They can't want to shoot them for food, surely?
Exhausted, stressed, underfed birds would not be good to eat, so it must be for so-called 'sport'.

Let's hope the younger generation will be more enlightened.
In the meantime the EU should be urged to look again at this 'exemption'.

I agree rosequartz, it is not easy to choose countries which are 100% ethical... We are off to Sicily this week, and I am sure there is plenty happening there which I would not be happy about. But I think in this case it is clear, people had the choice, and chose not to support a ban. People who do not want, eg as said above the 'vast majority' lose their rights to be offended if they choose not to vote. And as said, intimidation is a big thing in rural communities, here, there or anywhere.

It is not right that there is an exemption for Malta on the basis of 'tradition'- tradition has a lot to answer for. FGM is also a tradition... should then approve of it?

But there are 2 issues here, one is the shooting of turtle doves and partridge- and the other is the totally illegal killing of 1000000 of song birds and raptors. No Law will make a difference until the Police will act and not protect hunters- and pressure from the EU via subsidies would be a good way to 'concentrate the mind'.

Having worked with wildlife conservation officers and police in the UK- it is true that birds are well looked after in hunting country due to preservation of the habitat. But this is certainly NOT the case for birds of prey, which are still shot and poisoned by game keepers in large numbers in the UK, tragically.

I've just done a long post about hunting in Portugal but I couldn't post it.
Briefly, bird hunting is still legal in season which runs roughly from the end of October to the beginning of March.

Oh, not at all granjura, like you I am questioning why there is an exemption and I don't think there should be. I am astonished that the EU have not clamped down on this, they seem to enforce stringent rules about other things, some quite ridiculous.
In fact, I think it would be more effective for pressure groups to lobby the EU to get this referendum made null and void. The EU has given Malta an exemption and therefore will not make sanctions or reduce subsidies.

However, whilst not visiting Malta could hit their tourist industry and make them think again, I doubt it would be in sufficient numbers to make a difference. Unfortunately most people would shrug their shoulders and think 'so what', I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face'.
Unfortunate but true.

I disagree 100% with what has happened in Malta but I think rosequartz is right in pointing out that most countries have some practices that people might disapprove of.

I always feel sorry for those little birds that Spanish people tend to keep in tiny cages on their balconies - a living death if ever there was one. Bull fights and running with the bulls is horrible. In a lot of countries, all sorts of animals can be seen crammed into tiny cages in markets. The abuse of animals all round the world is horrific and it would be difficult to find anywhere that isn't cruel in some way.

Apart from that, many countries have practices that are cruel to human beings too.

The dolphins rounded up in the Taiji hunt are killed for human consumption. The killing is not just done for sport. It's a traditional source of food in that part of the world.

Just thought I'd mention this as someone stated that the Taiji dolphins are not eaten. They are.

Back to my earlier post. As I said bird hunting is legal in Portugal. I know several men who are hunters and they seem nice kind men in every other way. They will tell proudly that they have to study and pass an exam before being allowed to shoot. They eat birds they shoot. And rabbits and wild boar too. I don't like like hunting. I like even less the ones who go out and shoot indiscriminately. Less still the trapping of birds and small animals, which is illegal.
It is 'traditional'. The south of Portugal was a very poor area, still is in some parts. Most of those hunting can remember their grandparents and parents hunting for something to feed their families on.

Is it worse to kill a wild bird and eat it (not talking about the migrating birds in Malta here, but more like a partridge or similar) than eat a chicken which has spent 6 weeks being fattened up in a shed with thousands of others?

If anyone has been to see the Paddington movie they may be upset at the following:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3016385/Paddington-s-saviours-Mail-Sunday-readers-donate-astonishing-30-000-fly-tortured-bear-rescued-Peru-circus-new-home-U-S-sanctuary.html
(that dreadful MOS to the rescue again!)

Not that I am thinking of going to Peru this year.

I do apologise for only posting occasionally, I only have time to come and look at the forums and site sometimes and I do enjoy reading people's opinions.
It's really good I'd say that people have the sensitivity to care about animals as well as humans (and actually humans are animals too!) and to be aware of practices that take place in countries we might visit and to think how much we mind and whether there's anything we can do. That's what I do and I think the 'look at your own country first' is just making a cheap point.
Similarly, arguments about killing farmed as opposed to wild animals. We will never persuade everyone to become vegetarian, even if it would be better for their health. What we can do is have good welfare laws about how animals are kept and the UK/EU can be proud about this.
I mind about the dolphins because it's a recent practice, not a long ago cultural one; it's about money, and although some dolphin meat is taken for eating (although it's high in mercury and not many do eat it now), most of the dolphins are taken into captivity and kept in less than ideal circumstances. They are mammals with the same nervous and emotional system as us, they are also highly intelligent. Frankly, what we do to them is torture.
But that's off topic. If you are an RSPB member, as I am, you know how stubborn the Maltese are about the killing of birds and underlying the issue, as ever, is money. It's always the same. I do urge anyone to look at the RSPB site for lots of good information about birds throughout the world and their conservation. Given how fast the world is changing through a growing human population and also through climate change, I just don't feel that I can stand back and say 'it's just their culture' or similar.

I am trying but failing to work out that we should look at other countries' practices before we visit and perhaps see what we can do about it but looking at what we do in our own country (and perhaps seeing what we can do about it) is making a 'cheap point'.

I am wondering how many would stop visiting France if they new about the annual bird net trapping there?

Approx one million Skylarks are trapped in nets in Autumn where live birds are tethered at the nets to lure others.

The netting method is also used to trap other species, eg, Lapwing, Grey and Golden Plover etc.

I don't approve of this in any country and turned down invitations from my French neighbours to a traditional Lark feast.

I agree Agus, that is horrible, the France and skylarks trapping.As RQ says though, we would never go anywhere if we looked at all the things that took place in different countries!

A French girl I knew was disappointed that there were no edible snails roaming around the UK for her to catch and cook, but she worked out what the reason was - the British don't eat their thrushes, so they were eating up all the snails. If we were to eat the thrushes, then we would have snails to eat too!

Snails..... Shudder. granjura, if you are going to Sicily, as well as the delightful Montalbano, Mimi and Fazio, they also have the Mafia!