Time to ban gun sports

NoddingGanGan, the tag had been cut from the corpse of the bird, which was not found. It was wrapped in sheet lead to deaden the signal then thrown in the river. When the water was low a walker found it and thanks to contact details on the tag conservation workers were able to ascertain which bird it came from. I live in the Peak District where we no longer have eagles since they were exterminated (the last eagles's nest in England was on the cliff I can see from my house) but we do have hen harriers. Only one pair bred in 2019 and all three of their (tagged) chicks mysteriously vanished soon after leaving the nest. Read up on raptor persecution, it is very depressing

A sport which has the intention of killing an animal is a blood sport. Do clay pigeon shooting or archery if you want to play games outside which don’t involve death or cruelty. Trying to dress it up as some sort of benefit to wildlife is just glossing over the fact that the enjoyment comes from killing. That it also involves killing much other wildlife in order to facilitate the kill is an additional reason to dislike it.

I deplore senseless killing e.g. Trophy hunters. Shooting pheasants and grouse is for FOOD. The grouse would disappear if the moors were not managed i.e. Burned at regular intervals. We kill sheep, cows, goats, chickens etc for food so what is the difference except the pheasants and grouse have had a natural life unlike the poor farm animals.

blubber

I deplore senseless killing e.g. Trophy hunters. Shooting pheasants and grouse is for FOOD. The grouse would disappear if the moors were not managed i.e. Burned at regular intervals. We kill sheep, cows, goats, chickens etc for food so what is the difference except the pheasants and grouse have had a natural life unlike the poor farm animals.

Have you not read the thread?

I have read the thread. I'm not stupid. I said I deplore senseless killing! The killing of the bird wrapped in lead was a plant. Shooting parties do not carry lead sheet with them.

“a plant” by whom? It was probably one of those paid to “manage” the moor, no one said it would be the shooting party. People who go on grouse shoots don’t do it for food they do it for fun.

Wrong, there are grouse shoots where I live, orders are placed
before the shoots start .

Thank you Anniebach. Most of the other posts are from people who don't know anything about grouse moors or how they are managed.

The RSPB has concerns about "management" of the moors.

So, declaring my principles up front, I am a vegetarian and against blood sports.

However I can understand the need to cull deer and even eat grouse if that's what you want to do. What I personally object to is that these things are turned into sport. I know its not just the elite who do it, my FIL used to shoot birds on the grouse moors.

Its about time we stopped wanting pleasure from the killing of other species, even if we think we have to eat them.

blubber

Thank you Anniebach. Most of the other posts are from people who don't know anything about grouse moors or how they are managed.

You are making unfounded assumptions aren’t you.

In my area it's the farming community who go shooting, they live in a parallel universe to town folk. Nothing convinces them against their 'sport', it's ingrained in their way of life.
The Royals consider themselves country people I believe.
I am a RSPB member, the farmers I know do not like RSPB.

the farmers I know do not like RSPB.

They are probably not very good farmers then.

Grouse moors use a lot of recreational land that could be used for people who don't go out of their way to kill things.

I didn’t say people don’t eat the grouse, they do, but that’s not the point of the grouse shoot, if it was just about eating the things there would be a more efficient way of doing it and make more money. People do it as a sport, for a fun day out. Other wildlife which threaten the grouse , including predator birds, are killed by those who are paid to “protect” grouse so they survive to be shot at.

NoddingGanGan

How do you suppose the tracker became, "wrapped in lead"?
If a shooter or game keeper shot it what makes you think they'd be stupid enough to remove the tracker, wrap it in lead, (how do you even do that?) and leave it to be found?
The lead in cartridges is in the form of tiny pellets. Your post makes no sense and the story smacks of an anti shooting, "plant". And I say this as a disintetrested party.

I have no idea how or who wrapped it in lead, but lead is a very flexible and easily obtainable metal.

Why would anyone do that? A very simple answer. Lead would mean the signal from the tracker would be blocked. That’s one of the properties of lead - it’s why it’s used to line the cases that contain nuclear waste.

Sounds like a very deliberate act to me. Wonder how many more such tags are lying around the countryside, waterways and seas, wrapped in a toxic metal?

As someone who goes grouse shooting and is a member of the BASC I totally agree with “Blubber”
The moor management provides accessible paths for walkers, encourages wildlife and has helped protect many species.
Moor that has been neglected deliberately as an experiment soon became totally over grown and unable to support the many species that thrive on a managed moor.

Whilst shooting I have seen black grouse and hen harriers, the game keeper is so proud to have these birds on the moor, he was able to tell me how large the harriers territory was as he liaises with the RSPB who have fitted a tracker to one of the birds.

To shoot grouse all the “ guns” must be experienced otherwise they will shoot under instruction.
To shoot these birds is very difficult, pheasants are sitting ducks, grouse are far harder to shoot.
Grouse are truly wild, they are not bred and released like other game birds.

The moor we shoot on is extremely well managed and the owners will always rest the moor if they feel numbers are low.

The local economy benefits hugely from the shooting and it is a big part of life for the many locals who beat and pick up.
Lovely to see a young lad of 13 last year with a dog he had trained himself out on the moor.

Finally we are not all “ Toffs” just ordinary people with an age old hobby.

Missfoodlove I'd like to give you my view on some of the things you have said here. I know we won't agree but I hope you will consider them.

Moor that has been neglected deliberately as an experiment soon became totally over grown and unable to support the many species that thrive on a managed moor.
Why can't we manage the moor and then not shoot the grouse? (I know, costs...but we could find a way)

To shoot these birds is very difficult, pheasants are sitting ducks, grouse are far harder to shoot.
Being hard doesn't make it more acceptable.

Grouse are truly wild, they are not bred and released like other game birds.
Then leave them alone to get on with being grouse.

Lovely to see a young lad of 13 last year with a dog he had trained himself out on the moor.
Children trained to kill things, that's nice.

Finally we are not all “ Toffs” just ordinary people with an age old hobby.
I my post upthread I specifically said that my FIL went shooting as it seems to be a well-used defence that "we're not all toffs". As for it being an age old hobby, bear baiting and cockfighting used to be acceptable, but we moved on.

Dog fighting is popular as well.

There is no way that "gun" and "sports" should ever appear in the same sentence. There is nothing sporting about a person with a gun in pursuit of an unarmed wild creature.

Missfoodlove
Brave post.
I do not go shooting and have never been to a shoot but know people who do.
My DH once went to a shoot as a beater but was unhappy about what he saw, birds approaching close to the gun and shot.

Missfoodlove so let’s hear your defence of the shooting of golden eagles, red kites and other protected birds of prey then?

Furret

Missfoodlove so let’s hear your defence of the shooting of golden eagles, red kites and other protected birds of prey then?

Furret that's really unfair, I disagree with Missfoodlove but she hasn't advocated anything illegal.

I don't want to be associated with this kind of approach.

The OP was about shooting birds of prey on grouse moors. It is a valid question and if you don’t want people to have to defend that then by all means stay off the thread.

Disassociate yourself by all means. I’d prefer to call it burying your head in the heather.

Jings. That escalated quickly.