Izzard as female reimagining of Dr Jekyll, anyone ?

I guess he'll be worrying about what to wear

I’m less worried about men.women playing roles. Maxine Peake as Hamlet added something. The black actor who plated Ann Boleyn (sorry for not remembering her name) - where theatre is concerned I can enjoy something new . I don’t feel like that about the trans woman who is a whip fetishist who has a key role in the girl guides.

Iam64

I’m less worried about men.women playing roles. Maxine Peake as Hamlet added something. The black actor who plated Ann Boleyn (sorry for not remembering her name) - where theatre is concerned I can enjoy something new . I don’t feel like that about the trans woman who is a whip fetishist who has a key role in the girl guides.

But there is a difference. The role of Hamlet ‘reimagined’ as a woman was played by a woman. No problem. To reimagine a traditionally male role as female and then give the role to a man, to play the female. That, I have a problem with.

Exactly, Pammie.

When a person is late '50s they have surely passed through "girly mode" that conjures up images of little girls dressing up in "The Let it Go" Frozen mode or whatever the Disney equivalent is for flouncy 5 year olds these days. "Girly" rather trivialises the role of a mature woman who is possibly coping with among other things, the menopause. That rarely left me feeling particularly girly, more like exhausted, frazzled, and hot! that's hot temperature wise and not hot as "don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me" mode!

Well TerriBull, those of us born and lived as women are way beyond girly mode even earlier than our 50’s. That’s if we ever were in girly mode - on reflection I don’t believe I ever was one of those oink frilly frock girls. Despite that, I’ve always been female, lived my life as a woman, experienced all the stuff we have to manage, menstruation, menopause, childbirth (those of us able to do that)
I confess to feeling irritated as can be with middle aged men who put on a frock and self ID. They have no idea.

In itself, I couldn't care less what Izzard does in one role, but I do feel that this is exactly what many of us have been saying for ages. When men can say they are women and stamp on anyone who says differently, all the work that women did for years to carve out roles for themselves has gone. This is a role being taken from a woman in a literal sense, but it will spread to all sorts of others that are traditionally female, remove female categories in areas such as sport and destroy the very few female shortlists that still exist. At the same time, words like 'mother' are being corrupted to become 'gender-neutral'.

I note that Adele has been getting flak for saying that whilst she understands the reason behind having gender-neutral awards, she is a woman, and enjoys being a woman. As soon as I heard her say it I knew what would happen, and sure enough, it did. If women can't say they are women, but we have to say that transwomen are women on pain of being 'cancelled' (or worse), we really have fallen down the rabbit hole.

No I wasn't a frilly, flouncy, toe pointing girly either Iam, but my granddaughter was when she was little so that's girly to me. I get very irritated by the one dimensional view of women that is projected by SOME transwomen and drag artistes in particular, all flicky hair, short, short skirts, heavy makeup, vertiginous heels, long nails, fluttery eyelashes just a parody!

That wasn’t really my point Pammie1.

Izzard will be acting, I.e. pretending to be a woman Doctor Jekyll.

I would be furious if Izzard were to win ‘Besf Female Lead’ for it though. Trans, fluid or whatever, Izzard can never be female. That’s biology for you.

To broaden the debate a little, the SNP is to consider introducing women-only train carriages in Scotland. How’s that going to work when the SNP also says that anyone who claims to be a woman is a woman?

Eddie Izzard is a hilarious comedian and a great actor. There have been quite a few productions where a male character has been played by a female- Maxine Peak, Fiona Shaw etc. I can't think of any male actor who has played a female lead, so perhaps it is time. Although as she identifies as gender fluid I'm not sure it can be completely described as such. Still I'm sure she will see the funny side of it all

SueDonim

To broaden the debate a little, the SNP is to consider introducing women-only train carriages in Scotland. How’s that going to work when the SNP also says that anyone who claims to be a woman is a woman?

Yes, that's the sort of thing that women are being asked to give up. It's so anti-feminist it's frightening.

Pamie1 spot on. Why bother to reimagine the story as a female lead if you then cast a biological male in the part? Is the casting director saying there isn't a single female who could act the part as well as Eddie Izzard?

SueDonim well that would be a total waste of signage

I can't think of any male actor who has played a female lead, so perhaps it is time. Although as she identifies as gender fluid I'm not sure it can be completely described as such
Maybe, if it was a male playing an originally female part, but to have a male like Eddie Izzard playing a 'reimagined' female role just reverts it to a male part played by a male, even if that actor identifies in 'girl mode'.

Glad someone finds him hilarious Trisha he does not gain that title from me he doesn’t even make me titter I think he’s just a me me me look at me, character

Riverwalk

I have no problem with imaginative casting as long as he doesn't take too many female roles from women actors.

How many is too many?
How many transwomen actors do you think is acceptable, taking how many female roles each?

trisher I'm not familiar with the female actors you mention. Did they play roles as male people, or did they play roles that were previously male, as female people?

This thread is about a role that was previously male, now 'reimagined as female' to be played by a male person.
I suppose his imagination that he has a girl mode is what is meant.

Why bother to reimagine the story as a female lead if you then cast a biological male in the part? Is the casting director saying there isn't a single female who could act the part as well as Eddie Izzard?

How far is this from Laurence Olivier blacking up to play Othello?

Doodledog

*Why bother to reimagine the story as a female lead if you then cast a biological male in the part? Is the casting director saying there isn't a single female who could act the part as well as Eddie Izzard?*

How far is this from Laurence Olivier blacking up to play Othello?

I thought that was frowned upon these days as we've become more aware. I don't like blackface, but then again I don't like 'drag' for exactly the same reasons, although so many don't see drag as 'appropriation' which is a mystery to me.

Oh yes, it’s not just frowned upon but most people are appalled at ‘blackface’, and expect black peoples I be given the roles of black characters. I wonder whether people will look at the notion that men can do ‘womanface’ with the same revulsion.

Mollygo

I don’t like him or rate him anyway so I won’t be watching. I don’t think men’s gender fluid is a topic I want to read about.

I used to love him.
I was a very early adopter of him in the early 90s.
Saw him several times and he was absolutely phenomenal.
I even spoke to him a couple of times.

Now I think that he is a complete and utter nob.

That’s the point of course -blackface is totally discredited. I think I remember Eddie Redmayne regretting his successful role wasn’t given to a trans actor. Yet women are as ever, expected to tolerate being side lined for the men

You did make me laugh Fanny with your description of EI. I recently saw him on Netflix playing the part of a solicitor in a Harlem Corben series and he was really rather good, to my surprise.

NanKate - yes EI was excellent in that drama

BlueBelle

Glad someone finds him hilarious Trisha he does not gain that title from me he doesn’t even make me titter I think he’s just a me me me look at me, character

Perhaps you never saw any of his comedy routines BlueBelle they were absolutely hilarious. (and he was he then) He was very glamorous then and has always stretched the norms of what was seen as male and female. I don't think he minds if you refer to him as he or she. So let's change to she. Did groundbreaking work in the 90s when transvestite was not something mainstream TV accepted and comntinues to stretch the boundaries, if she wants to play the part as a woman I'm sure she will be good.

FarNorth Maxine Peak did Hamlet
Fiona Shaw did Richard II
There are actually quite a few productions of Shakespeare with people playing the opposite gender and even all female or all male productions. It's interesting to Google it.So actually this is just another step in a long line of non traditional productions.