Partygate

Urmstongran

Oh merlotgran that must have been heartbreaking for you.
💐

Similar happened to a friend of mine in Yorkshire. Married 61 years. Nursed her husband at home best she could, till she couldn’t. The ambulance came and as he was guided inside, she gave his hand one last squeeze. And cried herself back up her garden path. He died two days later. And the funeral was no comfort to her. Her only living family (a sister) had to sit socially distanced during the poignant service. Beyond sad.

It was, urms but no worse for me than thousands of others.

We did, however, manage to get DH home for his last few days thanks to a wonderful hospice at home team who went above and beyond.

I wonder if any of them have a conscience. We’ve all been young and frivolous but fiddling while Rome burns springs to mind.

I did watch it and pretty well knew what to expect as I followed 'partygate' when it became news. Still shocking to see it portrayed on the screen though and especially powerful was juxtaposing party scenes with statements from members of the public, some of whom had been bereaved in dreadful circumstances, some the recipients of £10,000 fines for relatively very minor offences
I remember when it came out, Boris saying that the public didn't want to dwell on it but preferred to concentrate on other matters. He wasn't speaking for me!

I was totally incensed with anger by the programme .
I didn't realise the full extent of it .

Unbelievable .

All those, who participated should be banned from holding any sort of government office .

Everyone that I know obeyed the rules .
Covid ruined any socialising and so many businesses .
I know people , who weren't able to be with their loved ones as they lay dying in hospital and care homes .

EEJit

Is this a documentary or a drama?

On the one hand, do you believe it given the media hatred of Boris and co, on the other hand, it's possibly the figment of someone's imagination.

It’s a documentary. A very good one.

I haven’t watched it yet.

I lived next door to party central during various lockdowns, had to keep our GS’s bedroom window closed even when it was hot due to neighbours friends smoking weed up against our fence (we are detached and not close but the amount smoked carried on the breeze)

BBQ’s late night music, comings and goings etc.

Our neighbours are senior staff members of the NHS, one managerial and one clinical, but of course they were out each Thursday clapping themselves 🤬🤬👏👏

I didn’t report them as we are their only neighbours and it would have been obvious that it was us, I cannot put into words how cross and frustrated we felt, and I still struggle to be polite to them.

GrannyGravy13

I haven’t watched it yet.

I lived next door to party central during various lockdowns, had to keep our GS’s bedroom window closed even when it was hot due to neighbours friends smoking weed up against our fence (we are detached and not close but the amount smoked carried on the breeze)

BBQ’s late night music, comings and goings etc.

Our neighbours are senior staff members of the NHS, one managerial and one clinical, but of course they were out each Thursday clapping themselves 🤬🤬👏👏

I didn’t report them as we are their only neighbours and it would have been obvious that it was us, I cannot put into words how cross and frustrated we felt, and I still struggle to be polite to them.

That must have been very distressing and frustrating for you.

But people will forget and put their cross in the Tory box - it beggars belief.

I am just reading Rory Stewart's new book Politics on the Edge. His revelations about what really goes on in parliament are horrifying. No vestige of proper debate; backstabbing and power games. It makes me shudder.

Meanwhile, in Scotland, a Scottish MP lost her seat for simply feeling ill and returning home by train. Now I can empathise with that and can understand the urge to return home to my own bed + family and friends rather than remain, ill and alone in a city 100s of miles away. She has paid a heavy price, while the party gate mob got off with a £50 fine.

PS I also lost my DH during the pandemic. Not in his lovely care home where they had no covid cases whatsoever nor in the hospital when he had broken his hip due to a mini stroke and a fall. No, he was deemed to be bed blocking but not fit enough to be returned to the care home, so he was placed in an elderly care facility where he contracted sepsis and died a few days later. Another restricted funeral (10 people at the crematorium, a different 10 a week later for the interment of ashes - not the send off he so deserved, nor, company and support for the grieving family.

Granny23 - I am so sorry - that is dreadful. I was just thinking this morning how lucky we all were that my OH's funeral took place immediately before lockdown. The behaviour of these arrogant politicians and their cronies must make you so angry.

That’s awful, Granny23. I’m so sorry.

Whilst much of it was factual I am a bit unsure about the drama element of it. Unless you were present at those parties you cannot possibly know the things that were said and done. Time after time the party people were shown wildly leaping up and down as if off their heads. They said and did some shocking things. But is this factual? Channel 4 is not exactly known for holding back. I would have more confidence if it had been done by the BBC.

I'm not disputing the sickening fact that parties took place with no thought that the rules applied to them. I'm particularly furious with the £50 fine when most people paid an average of £6k and some £10k. Who the hell decided that?

But is it wise to assume everything shown was as it happened? Just like some people genuinely believe the people in The Crown really are the Royal Family and what is shown actually happened. You can take a load of facts which act like a skeleton, and then add some flesh and blood to create a living being. But after all, that's what Frankenstein was.

Granny23

Meanwhile, in Scotland, a Scottish MP lost her seat for simply feeling ill and returning home by train. Now I can empathise with that and can understand the urge to return home to my own bed + family and friends rather than remain, ill and alone in a city 100s of miles away. She has paid a heavy price, while the party gate mob got off with a £50 fine.

PS I also lost my DH during the pandemic. Not in his lovely care home where they had no covid cases whatsoever nor in the hospital when he had broken his hip due to a mini stroke and a fall. No, he was deemed to be bed blocking but not fit enough to be returned to the care home, so he was placed in an elderly care facility where he contracted sepsis and died a few days later. Another restricted funeral (10 people at the crematorium, a different 10 a week later for the interment of ashes - not the send off he so deserved, nor, company and support for the grieving family.

My condolences Granny23.

Reference the Scottish MP who lost her seat, do you refer to Margaret Ferrier? She didn't simply go home on the train, "While awaiting her results, she went to church, gave a reading to the congregation and spent more than two hours in a bar in Prestwick, South Ayrshire. The next day she travelled to London by train and spoke in the Commons before finding out a short time later that she had tested positive for the virus" and then travelled home by train. She refused to resign even though ejected from the SNP and clung on as an Independent until her constituents forced a by election. Her behaviour reflected "the rules don't apply to us' that those involved in Partygate followed. I don't think she was overly penalised, had she any integrity she should have resigned when caught.

Whilst much of it was factual I am a bit unsure about the drama element of it. Unless you were present at those parties you cannot possibly know the things that were said and done.
Do you think that the people at the parties would be the best ones to tell the story? They lied, covered up and generally tried to hide the ’facts’ - that is what the story is about.

All media - be it documentary or drama - is about representation and interpretation. If we are to have any news at all, or any understanding of what other people do or did, we have to accept that. Even someone filming a party would be choosing where to point the camera - ‘facts’ are slippery things, whichever channel portrays them.

merlotgran

They were fictional characters though as if that makes any difference. 🤔

They were actors but I think they were based on information from the Sue Gray report.

Merlotgran, this is from Wikipedia:

“It included dramatisations of Downing Street parties interwoven with archive news footage and documentary interviews. The dramatisations were based on Sue Gray's Partygate report and the Commons Privileges Committee investigation. Characters of special advisors were fictional, but based on real people.”

As I said, the Sue Gray report was the skeleton and the programme makers added the flesh and blood according to their interpretation. They created the party scenes and much of the dialogue. We really don't know how much is accurate.

Most 'real life' dramas take liberties with scripts, and use fictional representations of real people. If they didn't, the programmes would be boring, as real people don't talk like those in scripts, and the writers would risk prosecution if they got a tiny detail wrong. That doesn't mean that they are 'untrue' - as I say, truth is a tricky concept in the context of human interaction.

Doodledog I agree and normally it doesn't really matter, but this is a subject which affects everyone in the country and will no doubt influence the next General Election, so that makes it rather more significant than the usual docu-drama. That I find worrying. It may influence voters. I'm actually now a homeless voter, so I'm not trying to defend the Conservatives, but I'm not comfortable that many thousands of people may think this is exactly what happened when we don't know that.

To be honest, I think we know enough about what happened for people to make up their own minds without needing an historically accurate script. We know how many bottles of wine were drunk between how many people - I doubt they behaved calmly and quietly after that . We know that a karaoke machine and a child's swing were broken, and that the cleaners reported vomit and mess the next morning. they weren't tea parties.

Will it influence the next election? I don't know - I'd like to think so, but so many people seemed willing to forgive Johnson everything, and others appear to genuinely believe that it's ok for there to be one rule for our 'betters' and another for we plebs.

iis it Saturday afternoon viewing?

Will it influence the next election? I don't know - I'd like to think so, but so many people seemed willing to forgive Johnson everything, and others appear to genuinely believe that it's ok for there to be one rule for our 'betters' and another for we plebs.

Johnston and Trump both have that magic ingredient.....charisma. People seem to adore them no matter what they do. Their loyal followers won't abandon them, it's just a question of how many 'loyal followers' they have. Look at Trump, he is facing 91 criminal charges and a series of trials whilst running for the White House. He could be running the country from inside a prison cell, yet he still has a huge number of devotees. You literally couldn't make it up.