The Reckoning - Savile

I heard rumours about JS long before there was any general acknowledgment of his faults. I didn’t take it very seriously - he was just another weird showbiz person who we were never likely to come in contact with. My children did watch his programmes.

Last year’s two part Netflix documentary was more than enough. I watched about 15 minutes of this new drama and switched off. Reading the reviews afterwards, it doesn’t sound as though this new production adds any more to what we already know. It just feels like voyeurism.

Lucy Mangan in The Guardian:

But The Reckoning does exist in a context. And that context is a world already full of dramas and documentaries – including one very recent very thorough and harrowing one about Savile – that mine trauma, particularly female trauma, for content. To justify adding to that pile, you have to be adding something really valuable to the subject. It is here that The Reckoning falls down. It is a careful recounting of what we already know, and posits no more explanation of how Savile came to be and how he managed to operate untrammelled for so long than we have already learned or would intuit alone. The suggestion, based on scant evidence, that his predilections were due to “the duchess” not loving him enough, as an unwanted seventh child, is to indulge our worst impulses to blame the nearest, easiest person – the mother.

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/oct/09/the-reckoning-review-steve-coogan-is-chillingly-brilliant-as-jimmy-savile-bbc

I watched all episodes on iplayer, I thought the acting was superb.
I felt I needed to watch because I found it hard to believe anyone could be so depraved.
DC used to watch Jim'll fix it, yes I used to think he was a bit strange but not a clue he was a sexual predator.

I think it is more than voyeurism. It is very important that we grasp how people get away with things when they are well-known - especially in our current "celebrity" culture - with social media now thrown in.

Mollygo

BlueBelle,
I think it’s important, but how many teenagers/young people do you think were watching it? I asked all my DGC stretching from early teens to early twenties, if they’d seen Steve Coogan in the programme about JS.
Responses
Youngest said Who’s Steve Coogan? Who’s JS? No she didn’t watch the programme. Yes she had heard about creepy men, you shouldn’t be alone with them or go places where they can trick you into sex.
Yes they were taught about grooming at school.
Middle teens didn’t watch it-^we get told about different ways of grooming at school and that’s quite enough.^
Did I know that some girls still do it even when they know?
The oldest one had heard of JS, but didn’t watch it and nor did her friends.
The only one who did watch it was one of the late teens DGS. He said it was interesting because it happened in history when you were young Grandma. Which put me in my place!
He thought it was appalling and couldn’t understand why adults had not done anything about it, but ^didn’t believe the children would have listened back then because they still don’t now.^

I don't think we should worry if today's teenagers are not watching it. Once something has been made it will be around for ever, so they may watch it 10 or even 20 years from now and then realise what it was all about. There are many things which are of no interest to teenagers but which they will find out about when older.

I think it's good that people, especially the young, know about the likes of Jimmy Savile and hopefully learn to be wary of people. Steve Googan is brilliant as always.

Years ago I had a colleague in the bank where I worked and her “claim to fame” was she had a Jim’ll Fix It badge. Oddly she wrote to him when she was a young girl for him to fix it for her to Rob a bank. I think she was lucky as she never mentioned any inappropriate behaviour- but perhaps she wouldn’t.
I think it’s true what they said in last night’s programme that he almost groomed a nation. Now I think what a creepy horrible depraved man he was but although I didn’t particularly like him I thought he was doing good work for charities - little did we know.
In my early twenties myself and friends did meet another popular Radio 1 DJ a few times in a local nightclub who was equally creepy and we knew a girl who said she was raped by him and that it was covered up by his management possibly the BBC she was told she wouldn’t be believed. He used to send his management/minders to bring young girls he had picked out to go and meet him. I was pleased to see about 10 years ago as part of the Yewtree Operation that investigated Jimmy Saville he was investigated and went through a few court cases for sexual assault and rape and did receive a prison sentence.

I spent a number of years living in Scarborough and I can remember a work colleague telling me not to allow my boy's to work for Jaconelli (both were looking for Saturday jobs at the time).

Stories about both him and Saville were widespread. It's such a shame that they weren't acted upon!

she was told she wouldn’t be believed.
This is why Saville and others like him get away with it. Even today, women who disclose sexual abuse by famous men have to run a gauntlet of criticism.
I watched the first episode and will stick with it as I want to see how he became so cosy with some members of the RF.

I watched the programme with great misgivings. I am not able to leave the house at present as I am recovering from surgery, and thought I'd see what all the fuss was about. As it happened, I felt almost physically sick, and will not be watching any further episodes.

Parsley3

^she was told she wouldn’t be believed.^
This is why Saville and others like him get away with it. Even today, women who disclose sexual abuse by famous men have to run a gauntlet of criticism.
I watched the first episode and will stick with it as I want to see how he became so cosy with some members of the RF.

Exactly this.

We have seen recently what happens when women come forward, or when anyone tries to act on rumours. They are accused of lying, of instigating witch hunts and so on, which is exactly what happened in the case of Savile, then the same people are blamed for not doing anything.

Given that it appears that Savile had the police eating out of his hand too, what would you (any of us) have done had we been able to at the time? I don't have the first idea, personally.

I forgot to comment on the programme - I think Coogan did an excellent job. It was very disturbing, but I do feel that dramatisations of things like this are important. As people have said, younger generations won't know about him, and it is important that all of us understand what can happen if people don't speak up. I also think it's important that those in authority know that they will be called to account if they don't protect people - if there isn't enough evidence they should do more to find it, and listen to those who report abuse rather than demanding proof which is often impossible to provide.

I'm not sure about the psychology aspect - the implication that Savile's crimes were a result of his mother's relationship with him. It's possible, and I believe the research for the programme was meticulous, but I'd have liked to know more about how that conclusion was reached. There was mention at the start of how his mother used to beat him as a child - probably not uncommon in the 20s and 30s, but I can see how that could lead to a belief that children and young people have no say over what happens to their bodies. That wasn't really explored though, and I take Caravansera's point that blaming a woman for a man's crimes is depressingly common.

Otherwise, I think it was very well done.

henetha

I think it's good that people, especially the young, know about the likes of Jimmy Savile and hopefully learn to be wary of people. Steve Googan is brilliant as always.

So do I. One way to do it would be an ad before films at the cinema - a reminder that people online may not be who they say they are; that going in a car to meet up with someone your parents do not know or when your parents do not know is a recipe for disaster; etc. there are enough examples of unsafe practice and what they need to to make a full trailer before the main film, or mid film. It may not be suitable for teens, but if as parents, you’ve decided your child is old enough to go then they’re old enough to learn it. If they’re going and parents don’t know that they’re definitely old enough to need to know.

Luckygirl3

I think it is more than voyeurism. It is very important that we grasp how people get away with things when they are well-known - especially in our current "celebrity" culture - with social media now thrown in.

Well said.
I will watch it when I have time.I think Steve Coogan is a really good actor, and he interviewed Savile I believe at one time but found him incredibly evasive.What a swine Savile was, everybody who knew even a bit of what was going on and did nothing should hang their head in shame.

I thought Steve Coogan was extraordinary in the part.

I agree with Luckygirl3 that the programme is a sobering warning about the ‘rich and famous’ who assume they’ll get away with it - and all too often have - because nobody’s going to believe ‘little’ people, are they?

I did wonder how true that scene with his mother was - in confession she was afraid she didn’t love her son (or not enough) - she sensed a ‘darkness’ in him.

. . . everybody who knew even a bit of what was going on and did nothing should hang their head in shame.

I agree. But why didn't that apply to Russell Brand and others? Savile was never tried and found guilty - do we always have to wait until someone dies before they can be accused of things that happened in private so can't be proven? How many victims have to come forward before they are taken seriously?

The thing is with Savile he fooled almost everyone from the Royals, BBC management, to hospital directors and prison governors.

But he didn’t fool me! Several years before he died and all the scandal was exposed someone on another forum was praising him for his charity work. I went on saying he was a weirdo and questioned how he was allowed access to patients, to smoke on hospital wards and to do as he pleased. I also said my gut feeling was that one day he would be exposed as I had read his autobiography some time before which contained some seriously creepy stuff about young girls yet it got published.

OMG there was outcry about how wonderful he was, such a character, all his charity work etc and what a horrible person I was because I was badmouthing Saint Jimmy! I think I came close to being chucked off. 🤣🤣. Some years later I found the old thread and went back on to say “I knew it” but they all kept very quiet. 😉

It's not clear whether he did fool almost everyone though - did they believe he was innocent or did they turn a blind eye because of the money he raised and his connections? Who knows?

Everyone I know says they knew he was a 'wrong 'un', but he still got away with it. Maybe it's a case of hindsight being a wonderful thing, but I agree that I felt there was something creepy about him. I never met him, and don't know anyone who did, so that was just based on his appearance and demeanour, as well as rumours.

I also agree that saying anything about people like Savile is fraught with danger, as there is a good chance that you will meet the response you describe, Primrose. People leap to the defence of men (possibly women too, but I can't think of an example of that) who have been accused by multiple people of the same crimes - often with very similar experiences, and anyone saying 'hang on - there's a pattern forming here' is expected to have fingerprints, DNA and CCTV evidence to back up what they say. Of course we don't want to see anyone convicted in Salem-style witch hunts, but equally, this attitude creates the atmosphere in which people like Savile can get away with their behaviour. It's difficult to know how to get that balance right.

Oh no! I didn’t realise it’s a four-parter! 30 minutes was enough for me. I don’t want to be reminded of that horrible creep - brilliantly portrayed as he was by Steve Coogan.

Mollygo

^I still can't believe that the culture was such that so many people were 'aware' but refused to do anything.^

I can’t either, but I’m grateful for the off button.

The powers that be: the BBC turned a blind eye because of his popularity.

Years before he was exposed for the monster he was, I remember reading an article about him and his charity work, and he was widely praised by hospitals for the fact that he actually worked there as a porter.
Nothing glamorous, and the point was made that famous people often turn up at hospitals, stay for a short while chatting to some patients and then leave.
Savile, it was said, got stuck in, worked long hours and of course back then most patients would have been delighted to have him around.

Of course we all know now that it was a means to an end.

He was obviously a very complex character, a challenge for any psychiatrist I imagine, and of course he raised many millions of pounds with his marathon runs, which continued even as he grew older.

This complexity I think, along with his intelligence, enabled him to fool so many people.

Steve Coogan is a good actor he got Savile off very well.
I meet him once.. Savile sat next to me once on a families day on a War Ship. There was something about him, that made me just acknowledge his presence with a tight smile. He didn't IMO come across as someone you wanted to talk too. And belive me I would have done.
There were also a few children there who knew who he was, who approached him to say hello but he was cold and distant to them (thank goodness).

I also worked with someone who knew him from Leeds Royal Infirmary, he was always know as "now then, now then" word went out were he was so to avoid him and that area for a while. If they knew why was nothing done?

It appallingly he didn't have to face court like Rolph Harris or Gary Glitter what a slime ball.

I wasn't going to watch it because I felt the whole upsetting disaster had been well explored by the media. However I decided to see what it was like and I have to say that Coogan becomes Saville within a few minutes of watching him act. He is brave to take on the part, I wonder if it will have an effect on him psychologically.
I cannot imagine anyone now being allowed to roam the wards in a jokers costume and sitting on the beds of young girls. That part was awful. I always thought he was a nasty creep, I could never watch Top of the Pops for that reason. I think any programme that warns young people to listen to their intuition and to be wary of revolting creatures like Saville is worth showing.

I started to watch it, but couldn't continue for personal reasons. I was in the dance world in my teens and often went on Top of the Pops at Shepherd's Bush studios. A girl from our dance school committed suicide and her diary explicit contained stories about two DJs who invited her back after the shows. Her mum reported it to the police and to the BBC, but an inquest decided she was a star-struck fantasist and that her suicide had nothing to do with a celebrity sex scandal. She was 15 I think, it was maybe 1970.
The names of Jimmy Savile and another famous DJ at the time were there for all who knew.