The Reckoning - Savile

Really Doodledogasking questions is not now acceptable on a thread ?

Who said that? I didn't. I just pointed out that the answers to such obvious matters of fact are in the programme which is the very point of the thread . People can ask what they like, but they may find that others find that being expected to stop discussing the thread topic to answer the most basic of questions, when the answers are in the drama is a bit irritating.

I get the impression that this is another case where you think that people;e should have shut up until they had irrefutable proof of Savile's guilt before coming forward? That may be the wrong impression, but you haven't added your thoughts, just fired off questions, the answers to which are very much in the public domain.

I chose not to watch the drama when I read-‘some names have been changed and some characters and scenes created for dramatic effect’

The blonde girl from our dance school, (who committed suicide), not only had her name changed in the drama, but I gather she was made to be Asian. I'm not sure what purpose that served?

It was all so horrific without adding scenes for dramatic effect

Anniebach

I certainly do not believe Charles asked Savile to advise Andrew and Sarah how to behave in public.

I don't either

Where is the actual evidence? Have we seen the letters from Charles to Savile?

I've very little time for MSM. We are fed all sorts of nonsense that people believe.

The drama hardly mentions the RF but it does feature some of the actual people who were victims of Savile's sexual assaults. They speak quite openly of how the assault affected them and explain why he got away with it. Savile was so lauded by the great and the good during his lifetime that it is easy to understand why a little boy couldn't disclose that this "hero" was actually a sexual abuser.

Yet what these people endured wasn’t enough dramatic effect was added

Well it was a dramatisation.

Louella12

Anniebach

I certainly do not believe Charles asked Savile to advise Andrew and Sarah how to behave in public.

I don't either

Where is the actual evidence? Have we seen the letters from Charles to Savile?

I've very little time for MSM. We are fed all sorts of nonsense that people believe.

If I recall correctly...the Netflix documentary actually featured the letters between Charles and Savile, some details here;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10689515/Prince-Charles-heaped-praise-Jimmy-Savile-asked-help-fix-Royal-Familys-image.html

While I generally agree that MSM can feed a lot of nonsense, I'd suggest there's truth here.

Wonder how the letters were available so long after they were written

Anniebach, are you suggesting some kind of conspiracy, forged letters aimed at undermining King Charles

Anniebach

Wonder how the letters were available so long after they were written

I thought his Secretary had kept them. I’m surprised that they haven’t been surreptitiously removed by the security services.

No Iam but something doesn’t ring true.

I wonder if the keyboard warriors who are all over the internet demanding that the BBC should be closed down for ignoring stories about Savile are the same ones heaping insults on the women who are accusing Russell Brand.

Is that not an unlikely crossover. The BBC were up to their neck in it with Brand too.

Yes, it seems unlikely to me too. I don’t want the BBC to close down, but I would like to see systems in place so that numerous people making complaints are listened to and their accusations are co-ordinated across departments.

I would also like to see the police having a duty to co-ordinate complaints across institutions - some sort of central database accessible by any force, so that if someone comes in and says Mr X has molested them in a particular manner it can be cross-referenced with other complaints across the country, whether they happened in a hospital in Leeds or a London TV studio. If something like that had been in place (not possible in the days before without linked computers, I realise) both Savile and Brand (and Harris, Hall and Clifford) would have found it much more difficult to get away with it. It would also encourage women to speak up, and be a deterrent.

If only all the people who knew there was something creepy about Savile had done something about it. Regrettably, my only contribution was in the last few years it was broadcast when I refused DD’s desire to send in a request because I thought he looked weird, and that was before I even knew about what he was doing.
But would I have made my feelings known beyond my local circle if I’d known?

Looking weird is not a crime Mollygo you couldn’t be expected to act on his look.

The whole situation reminds me of the Milgram Experiment, in which people were tested on how far they would do bad things if told to by someone in authority- they were remarkably compliant on the whole. Many people will do as they are told if they are told or believe that it is the right thing to do. It would apply equally to being told not to do something (ie report an incident or insist a complaint is taken further) because Savile raised money or drew in audiences. I think the conclusion was that the compliance with authority is partly ‘human nature’ and partly because of upbringing but it was a very powerful impulse.

Dee1012

Louella12

Anniebach

I certainly do not believe Charles asked Savile to advise Andrew and Sarah how to behave in public.

I don't either

Where is the actual evidence? Have we seen the letters from Charles to Savile?

I've very little time for MSM. We are fed all sorts of nonsense that people believe.

If I recall correctly...the Netflix documentary actually featured the letters between Charles and Savile, some details here;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10689515/Prince-Charles-heaped-praise-Jimmy-Savile-asked-help-fix-Royal-Familys-image.html

While I generally agree that MSM can feed a lot of nonsense, I'd suggest there's truth here.

That is a shocking and surprising article. It just goes to show how clever he was at influencing and manipulating people, something that psychopaths do so very well. And Charles mistakenly thought he was someone with good common sense because that is the very clever image he portrayed. We also should remember that his skill as a people person and charity organiser did not always overlap with his paedophile activities. I'm sure he would have been on his best ahaviour for any of the Royals, the little scumbag.

Oh yes, he was very clever and manipulative, without a doubt.

May I ask a question? People who use the term ‘MSM’ - from where do you get your non-‘mainstream’ information that is free of bias and doesn’t ‘feed nonsense’ to gullible viewers/listeners/readers? I see the term regularly on here, and have often wondered what the alternative media must be.

Doodledog

Oh yes, he was very clever and manipulative, without a doubt.

May I ask a question? People who use the term ‘MSM’ - from where do you get your non-‘mainstream’ information that is free of bias and doesn’t ‘feed nonsense’ to gullible viewers/listeners/readers? I see the term regularly on here, and have often wondered what the alternative media must be.

I think that's a really interesting point... personally I've started to look at other news sources alongside the standard.
Byline Times and Open Democracy are two and given the current situation in Israel/ Palestine, Middle East Eye.
I think by comparing and contrasting, hopefully you can get pretty close to the truth.

Byline Times is pretty mainstream though - or I see it as such. It's not as biased as some sources, but all the same it has a wide circulation/readership and is often a source of news for other outlets. I haven't come across Open Democracy, but will have a look.

I don't know - I see 'MSM' being sneered at a lot, and take it as a judgement from people who have access to some sort of subcultural or otherwise non-commercial media that they see as more neutral or less manipulative than the sources used by the common herd. I just wondered what these media were.

Social media is valuable, IMO, but hardly more reliable than 'MSM' unless it is in the form of tweets or posts from people you know personally who are involved in a situation. By definition, all media mediate, or act as a go-between between the source of an event and the receivers of the story that results. Anyway, I'm just thinking aloud, really - it's something I have wondered about for a while.

I have just watched all of The Reckoning on iPlayer. Absolutely brilliant performance by Coogan. I agree it didnt necessarily add anything to the story, but I thought it was important to remind us all of the dangers and how even the most lauded celeb isnt necessarily OK. I think we need to remember its dramatised and some of it is conjecture. I dont think anyone knows what Savile's mother thought of him. I dont think there is any evidence Savile went to confession and mentioned his 'friend' the sex offender, nor indeed is it clear how he reconciled his faith and his actions, or even if he felt he needed to do this. Its entirely possible he felt no guilt if he was a narcissist, because he would only be capable of seeing his own viewpoint. Not excusing him, but there cant be much doubt he suffered from severe personality disorders.