to be screaming silently

How're you doing, *Nanban? Hope Christmas was ok for you?

Why doesn't someone invent a longer lasting temporary tattoo - like semi-permanent hair dye? Now, there's an opportunity .....

I had my ears pierced in my 30's and never regretted it either. I love earrings and there's so much more choice with pierced ears and clips can really hurt. A jeweller friend of mine did it for me and I felt very confident as she was a health freak and I didn't suffer any consequences apart from a little soreness from the hole trying to heal itself - twisting the stud was 'uncomfortable' but didn't last long. I must admit to wanting to have a small, elegant tattoo, but the thought of a possible infection, whilst unlikely, does put me off as my health has already had a bashing from c.diff.

I have never regretted havning my ears pierced and love earrings and wear tiny diamond studs, to stop the hole from closing up, when I'm not dressed up or going out.
As to tattoos they will be erased by Laser when the people want to be rid of them but they had better start saving up now because Laser treatment is very expensive.

My medic sister did mine on a slack afternoon in A&E.

I was dragged along at 30 to have my ears pierced - it hurt!!! and it was followed by a year of horrible infections and the thought of tongue, belly button - no way. And nose rings - sore, red noses with a cold are bad enough but blowing around a ring - yuk. Trouble is when we're young [huh] we only see today and tattoos last for ever. Bah humbug - I must be elderly.

I am so glad I am not alone in detesting these so called 'religious' assaults on children. I am often told I must respect all cultures, but some are so barbaric they do not deserve respect.

On the subject of 'cool' parenting - when my daughters were teenagers in the mid 1970's, we were encouraged by the 'experts' to treat them as friends, get the girls on the contraceptive pill, let them try alcohol, etc.
It was some years before I realised how wrong this was - children need boundaries set for them, something to push against, but not to overcome.
We now know that sexual intercourse at an early age can lead to many problems, not just pregnancy, but genital warts which are implicated in herpes. Emotionally, young teenagers are not ready to deal with the rejection that often follows an early sexual experience.
However, I do recognise that children mature much sooner, for good or ill, and just saying 'Don't do it' never worked. There were plenty of unplanned pregnancies and I am glad girls no longer feel pressured into giving their babies up for adoption or having an abortion. I think we need more emphasis to be placed on responsible behaviour for boys - we hear so much criticism of single young mothers, but unless it all occurs through parthenogenesis there must be some single fathers out there too.
Perhaps we could also be looking at why some girls feel so alienated from society and the world of study or work that having a baby seems the only way they can get attention or security.
I was interested in some good research that showed that the best way for a young man to stay out of trouble with the police, drugs, etc. was for him to have a steady girlfriend as early as possible! It certainly worked for one of my grandsons, who was in with a very dodgy crowd at 15, but soon settled down with a sensible girl and is now a model husband and father, at 26.

To return to the OP, I never criticise any of the decisions my daughters make about their children unless they actually ask for my opinion. I would have resented it from my mother and MIL and I am pretty sure my daughters would resent it from me. I think we just have to trust that we have done enough of a good job in bringing up our children to leave them to bring up theirs in their own way.

Are you suggesting that my dear D might do such a thing!? - heaven forfend!!

Mishap: the "invisible" tattoo at the base of the daughter's spine

I did some work with a tattooist once ( not tattooing I really don't like them)
and was discussing the location of "work"and invisible tattoos...

Oh dear not something a mum might want to hear..

He explained to me that those base of spine "invisible" tattoos ARE VERY VISIBLE to someone.... having sex with a lady in a certain position... and that is the cause of the popularity...

I said "Aaaah that makes things... ah I see now .... oh..."

My DS1 invented the Grunge look at the same time he had the Kevin tendencies of the early teenage years, but my what a difference now.I know how my parents felt when I used to go out in my OpArt clothing in the 60s mum must have been mortified and we all thought we looked so cool.Oops must get back to wrapping presents only stopped off for a quick

The Goth phase was too early for my two but DS1 insisted on having shoulder-length hair with burgundy low-lights when he was about 15. The school tolerated it, so I did too. It was always lovely, curly and clean. Nowadays, he shaves his head, a throw-back to his days as a chef, working in very hot conditions, at least, I think it started then, though he allowed it to grow for his wedding - couldn't have a skinhead in the wedding pics! DS2 was too much involved in sports to bother about transient fashions. He was, and still is, irredeemably scruffy.

glamma The Goth phase was weird from a parent's point of view. My son and his pal had ashen faces and darkest eyes and purple lips! The coat trailed on the ground. Hair looked as though an electric current had passed through it. I worked in a pharmacy in a small village at the time. Whenever the duo entered the premises, everyone stared. The pharmacist said...if my son looked like that, I'd shoot him! A year later, his son, came home for the weekend. Guess what he looked like?

Oh supernana you have reminded me of when DD was going through the Goth phase with her best friend and partner in crime Shelly,Shelly's mum and dad would not allow her to dress in the Goth fashion so it had to be done at my house before they went out,the awful shoe's they wore big black clumpy things with studs around the heels they looked like something out of the Adams family how I laugh when I think of it,they both went on to do so well at school etc and are now both very respectable mums going through the sames things with their DCs.

em Some years ago, I was sitting next to my eldest granddaughter at a family gathering. She's the "arty one" and was dressed in the weirdest clothes - which happened to suit her. I told her how lovely she looked. She smiled broadly and I saw a stud [I think in her tongue or inside lip!] I was HORRIFIED. I didn't mention the stud to her or any other member of the family because I knew that she would "grow out of it", just as my then teenage son grew out of wearing eye-liner and head to toe black [sprinkled liberally with talc] - his Goth phase! My granddaughter is now very elegant and minus the stud. My son is a well-dressed and stylish adult.

I remember an ad for cookware that appeared on tv a year or 2 back It showed
an elderly lady sporting a barbed wire type tattoo on a very wrinkly upper arm. Not a pretty sight!

i always wonder what the old folks home will look like in years to come! all that wrinkled tatooed skin...mind you ..they will be able to identify some folk by their tatoo's...

One of my Ds has a tattoo of a dragon at the base of her spine - cannot be seen by anyone - can't imagine why she bothered! It is one of those that fades after 10 years. All seemed pretty pointless to me.

DS1 had tatoo on right shoulder and top of his arm when he was 18 and this was the norm then for younger soldiers at the time and still seems to be the norm now,DS2 decided that at 16 he could follow the path of his older brother and even though he had not joined the RAMC at that time he went with his best friend and had chinese symbols tatooed up the inside of his arm when he came home and told me I was mortified but could not say anything as DS1 had tatoo's,DH said to DS2 what does it say then son ? and was the guy who did it chinese and does he understand what it say's ? what do you mean dad ? says DS2 it means good long life,oh said DH are you sure its doesn't say ----head (pardon me girls) so DS2 took himself to the local chinese chip shop where his friend from school worked and was relieved to find out that the translation was correct and it meant good long life,but he just had to check and make sure.

oops - only one cr...p!!

Daughter No.3 has an apology for a tatoo at the base of her small toe which looks like something has cr....ed on it. At 17 she went travelling and returned with a thing through her tongue which remained there until she was about 24 when it split and fell out in the middle of a rather posh lunch in Harvey Nichs. She had her ears pierced, 5x in each ear at 14 when I had expressly said No, wait until you are 16. Now at the age of 30 she is a normal, sensible Mummy with only the splodge on her foot as a memory. I think it's a right of passage out of which they will eventually and hopefully, grow. SIL No.2 had his bellybutton pierced as a teenager (ugh) and took it out this year when he was 40 - thank heavens!

Hi mishap
I remember that article. It was years ago and my postman was most intrigued by it!

I said no to piercings and tattoos while my daughter was legally too young to have them without my permission. Fat lot of difference that made.

My SIL in England has tatoos but they don't worry me. He has one that records his late father's date of birth and death and the same for his mother. He did have an earing a long while ago but no longer.

My younger daughter lives with us in France. At 17 she shaved her head and had a tongue piercing. She got a tatoo on her shoulder of a demon (no idea why) but she was and still is happy with it. After she split up with her abusive now ex husband and came to France she had an Angel tatooed on her other shoulder. They mean a lot to her the demon symbolises her life before she split and the Angel her now better life.

Em - that's the joy of GN! Always someone to listen.

I think part of my hangup is because DD1 did the same thing, regretted it and had the thing removed. I always thought that she'd use that experience to say no and explain why - at least while GD is SO young. However reading all these helpful posts has helped me look at it again. Maybe she felt that it was not such a big deal BECAUSE she did have hers removed. Have spoken to her today and am heading over to visit soon. She has also booked me for an overnight babysit Sat/Sun so she might be less likely to kick off!! Thanks to all who took part in the 'letting off steam' process.