Brexit is it final??

Just watched John Major's speech. A good reasoned argument I thought.

We have had peace in Europe for more than 70 years - if that is not a good enough reason to Remain, then I don't know what is!!

radicalnan - in your comment you said: Last Christmas I had 15, mixed nationalities, that we great fun for 3 days.

Sounds like you had a great time - did you plan for the extra food, chairs, places to park for your guests, fresh towels, etc., etc.?

Just the sort of thing we all do - what a pity our Government did not do the same thing when they knew in advance what the likely immigrant numbers could be - so I guess they are either incompetent or it was deliberate underfunding.

The 'austerity' cuts which are now getting ever deeper are entirely down to mismanagement of the economy, lack of planning for what was known in advance. In short, UK Government incompetence.

For anyone interested in the financing of the UK, I would recommend a couple of good books:

a) The Joy of Tax - Richard J Murphy
b) Called to Account - Margaret Hodge.

Genuine eye openers

Of course, we could blame Brussels, where Farage and his ilk were fighting for the UK corner to help improve our relationship and get extra funding from across the EU.

railman austerity is a government philosophy.

Except the EU was getting ready for a EU army and goodness knows what else. Endless.
And it had started to become far less peaceful.

By voting to come out, more chance of peace again in Europe, at least for a few more years.

There won't be an EU in 20 years' time.

There may be a slimmed down Trading Partnership of which we will be a founder member.

Rosina you mentioned that the French economy was "in tatters".

I guess that's why Peugeot are buying General Motors plants like Vauxhall in the UK, and according to the CIA World Factbook, the UK is in 10th place, and France is 11th, with little to choose between the two.

This link to a table makes for an interesting read:
www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html#fr

Thanks whitewave, that's just what I was saying.

Mind you - maybe you could interchange the word 'philosophy' with 'ideology' or even 'policy'.

Either way, austerity is doomed to failure in its present guise.

I think you may well be right Jalima ( no EU in 20 Years time) and by then we will be doing nicely. and glad that we got out when we did.

Rosina the French economy was not doing well but has picked up recently.
However, they have an election looming so what will happen then is anyone's guess.

Yes I suppose I could. I'm not sure it's doomed to failure. I think it is working very well for the Tories, the state is getting smaller and smaller.

Elderly people put their cross in leave - and their voted swung the result. It must have been easy to do, they had no job to lose, safe with pensions, houses a bit of money, so they will be cushioned from the results of their decision. Most will be dead by the time Brexit is sorted, it certainly will take longer than we are told. It will be left for their children's generation to sort out and their grandchildren to inherit. I voted remain - Leave was an emotional vote for the unknown, I find it very depressing.

granh1 it certainly was not only 'elderly' people who voted Leave ( 2 of our children did for a start!) And I don't intend to be dead when Brexit is sorted out either, we are not that ancient at the moment.As to the unknown, carrying on in the EU wasn't very certain either for the future.

Lets get Article 50 signed, then we can get on with it, knowing whats going to happen and when, until then its all speculation, and rumours, we cant back out now, we are the laughing stock of Europe now, dont let it get worse.
No more Brexit or Trump today please!

From the very first threads on the European Union Referendum and the 'oh so many' subsequent Brexit Threads posters have raised the subject of the EU Army and this has been ' refuted time and again'.

I believe there will be an EU Army! It may not be called ' The European Union Army' perhaps something like 'The Combined Forces of the European Union' or ' Operational Defence of The European Union '.

I have watched live coverage from the European Parliament and the subject of an EU Army has definitely been debated.

www.politico.eu/article/martin-schulz-hits-back-at-uk-over-eu-army-theresa-may-brexit/

"LONDON — Britain won’t have the power to veto an EU army either before or after Brexit, the president of the European Parliament said Friday during a speech in London.

The idea that the U.K. government could block such a vote was “counterproductive and anyway not possible in this case,” Martin Schulz said, hitting back at U.K. defense secretary Michael Fallon, who said London will resist any attempt to set up “a rival to NATO.

In the fields of security and defense policy, although the EU loses a key member state, paradoxically such a separation could give the necessary impulse for a closer integration of the remaining member states,” Schulz told an audience at the London School of Economics, adding that French and German proposals on security integration had been largely endorsed by the EU27 meeting in Bratislava last week, and were “a clear sign of things to come.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-parliament-nato-backs-plans-create-defence-union-a7432706.html

"The European Parliament has backed plans to create a defence union which will secure structured cooperation between nations as well as a new EU military operational headquarters.

Lawmakers at the European Parliament voted 369-255 in favour of the proposals, which also calls for greater spending by nations on defence.

Although the vote is not legally binding it does represent support for the proposition before the European Council meets in December to discuss Europe’s defence capabilities. "

Help please granh1...... what is the result statistic of 'elderly' votes versus 'the rest' in the brexit vote? I didn't see that breakdown. Also, what was the official definition of 'elderly' in selfsame breakdown? When I voted, this (presumably elderly) person took the consideration of my Cs and GCs futures on board and voted accordingly and only in my guess capacity as to how it might eventually pan out. Incidentally, I don't know ANY of my elderly friends who voted to leave. Most of them declared they were fine as they were and why rock the boat. Interested in some information from you here please.

I only know one 'elderly' person and I didn't ask him what he voted.

It has been surprising to hear from so many 'younger' people that they voted Brexit.
They look at me as if I'm deluded because I voted to remain.

Please don't label me a 'Bremoaner' because I'm not!

'Elderly' in the context of my post was someone well into his 90s Kim19 (well, nearer 100). I didn't ask him what or even if he voted.

No one I know voted to leave.

I did.

I think we discussed this before when we were asking 'why'. I said at the time that none of my Brexit family/friends/acquaintances are jobless, disaffected, easily led, thoughtless UKIPpers, racist or insular.
They all seemed to have put a great deal of thought into their decision, as did my family/friends/acquaintances who voted to remain.

Perhaps I just know a lot more people than some posters and mix in eclectic circles

Have you asked them whitewave?
And would you know if they are telling the truth?
Do you know only a small amount of people, or only socialise with like-minded people perhaps?

Ha ha, Ankers. That's good.
If they tell whitewave they voted to remain they must be lying.

NFK, The If Machine. Philosophical Enquiry. If...then what would happen?
Anyone else watching Panorama?

It does seem odd that no one you know voted to leave, whitewave. I agree that you must move in a very limited circle, or you've never discussed the matter with your friends and acquaintances.