Bel Mooney

Equating the use of the word ‘bully’ by a two bit columnist who advocates law breaking to the use of the word ‘gutter press’ to describe a tabloid right wing paper owned by a tax dodging non domiciled member of the elite is sheer nonsense.
If and when Covid Marshalls are introduced, they will have a hard and thankless task to carry out and it ill-behoves people like BM to be already stirring up negative attitudes towards them.

So I was asked if I was deliberately doing or going to do something whih would spread the infection. Well no I'm not. In fact my standards are actually higher than lots of what is going on around me. I only use cafes where a mask is needed to go in. I don't use real money I use contactless. I wear my mask when I'm out and don't keep taking it on and off. I carry my own sanitiser. But what really annoys me and why I agree with Bel Mooney is that my family, whose only real risk are the school children in it, because the adults are being careful and are working from home, is considered a risk and not allowed to meet up. While sitting in the pub near me are groups of people who aren't taking the same precautions and in a school nearby over 20+ teenagers are sitting in a room with no masks at all, and yet this is considered OK. It's not just ineffective, it's unenforceable, and counter productive. Instead of making rules about 6 the government should be repeating the same message again and again and making sure commercial premises are actually applying the rules. Mask up, sanitise and social distance.

trisher the problem is that there are too many people not behaving as you and your family do and entitled irresponsible people like BM are deliberately inciting them and providing justification. As I’ve posted several times already, there is a huge huge difference between criticising a policy and like her abusing your position to use a ( sadly) widely read rag to proclaim your intended law breaking. Surely you can see the difference between those two,points?

If she’d just come back from India for example and had written she wasn’t observing quarantine, woukd that be OK as well?

If the policy is unreasonable and you know that the risk for your family is smaller than that many are undertaking every day suziewoozie I don't see why you shouldn't say so and that you intend not to observe it. It points out the absolute lunacy and disjointed thinking behind the actions of the government.
Why would you use a tried, tested and agreed policy of self isolation to challenge this? If you want to know I think we should be going down a route like Singapore where you have to spend 14 days in an approved hotel/hostel and have to pay for it. I think there are many people ignoring the self isolation because they need to work. But even if they did that if the consistent message had been to wear masks it would have helped a little. As it is one litle rule like this 6 isn't going to make a huge difference. How could it?

I think I’ve gone as far as I can with this with you trisher. I can never accept that promoting law breaking as a columnist in this situation is acceptable and you think it’s fine. Too many people are not following the face, hands, space guidance for me to feel safe in a lot of situations. They will not be enforced - bullying shop assistants telling you to put your mask on - cue outrage by right wing columnist.

Both Trisher and Suzie are making valid points in actual fact. Suzie has said she agrees with the essence of the rule of six, if not the actual number, and Trisher has said she doesn’t agree with the rule of six but will follow it, and it appears that both posters are applying all the guidelines where necessary.

My thoughts are that the rule of six will penalise many families all over the country because if a couple have three children, then they can never, in the foreseeable future, actually meet together indoors or outdoors, with their grandparents. One parent, or one grandparent will need to absent themselves, so there are only six. But when the grandparent goes home, or the family return to the family home where the other other parent is, then any virus that might be present, will be potentially spread to the person who absented themselves. Not rocket science is it? And therefore not a very sensible rule, particularly when six people from different households can now meet together indoors, and those six people could be three couples, bringing the chances of infection up.

I think it’s high time that shops were made to enforce the mask wearing rule. No mask, no entry. Not too difficult is it? In Greece there are no exemptions for mask wearing, including no medical reasons. That’s because a mask does not stop a person from getting enough oxygen. I’ve seen a doctor demonstrating on television, oxygen saturation the same with or without a mask. I’m going to Kefalonia tomorrow, shock, horror! I expect to wear a mask on the plane and in all public spaces, it’s their law. I respect it. Far too many people in this country are so entitled that they think the law doesn’t apply to them. It’s illegal not to wear a mask in the shops. It’s illegal to meet with more than six people. And I don’t think I’ve seen a single Gransnetter say she/he is not going to obey the law.

maddy I wonder how people feel about the Scottish solution - children under 12 not counting but only 2 households? What I don’t agree with is no restrictions on meeting indoors and just relying on people bring sensible - obvs masks wouldn’t be worn indoors . I still think a line has to be drawn somewhere

For me the important element is the potential influence Bel Mooney has on her readership.
Many people think she is (in all other respects) level headed and sensible and there may be those now who take this as a green light to do what they want.
In that respect she is entitled to her opinions but irresponsible to broadcast them in a way which is clearly likely to have a following.
Like many , I can often see little rhyme or reason in this governments poorly thought out and implemented measures. I too would like children “not to count” , I think Priti Patel’s concept of “mingling” is barking , but were I a figure in the public eye I think I should be conscious of the example I was setting.

It’ll be interesting to get your feed back maddy. Hope it goes well, I’m not brave enough to go abroad but am having a week soon in a very very isolated English spot.

If children don’t count, should there be a limit on households and the children having to be part of one of the households? It gets tricky doesn’t it ? What some people seem to want to be able to do is have both parents, both sets of grandparents, and all relevant children. So you could say three households and all children. Then up pops someone who wants all ac, all their parents and in laws and all children. I just find coming up with a solution really difficult.

Suzie, we’ve gone from a week in Brittany, to a week in Normandy, to Zakynthos, to Santorini, and finally settled on Kefalonia. The reason, no quarantine (quarantine doesn’t actually bother me, but if you have to quarantine there must be a higher rate of transmission) and a quiet little apartment out of the city, in a block of six apartments, only two will be occupied at the time of travel. It’s just because I feel it will do me good. I found full lockdown stressful as I suffer from depression, the tablets I take normally control it, but it reared it’s head during lockdown, plus with all the worry over my daughter and her husband (both doctors) but luckily the rest of the family could work from home. So we just decided to go. We only booked last week. We looked at the UK but many areas have a higher rate of infection than our own area, so decided let’s go for it, and Kefalonia it is.
Enjoy your break Suzie, and luckily the weather has improved. I’ll let you know how we get on in Kefalonia.

Oh yes Suzie, I think it would be more acceptable to many people if young children under eleven were excluded from the number, with the added benefit of not spoiling Christmas for people.

And only two households. Yes, the Scottish solution is a good one.

Maddyone I think it’s high time that shops were made to enforce the mask wearing rule. No mask, no entry. Not too difficult is it?
Well yes, I think it could be very difficult if shop workers were suddenly expected to be law enforcers too.
What would you expect them to do if a posse of stroppy teenagers, or a gang of recalcitrant grandparents, suddenly tried to force their way, maskless, into their premises?
Restrain them and make a citizen's arrest?

What if a lone maskless person gained entry to a shop and ignored requests to leave? Would the shopkeeper then be liable to prosecution because they hadn't forcibly removed them?

We have a highly trained police force who mainly police by consent. There are good reasons to not extend their powers to all and sundry, quite apart from putting an unfair burden on business owners.

She lives in a very nice village in South Gloucestershire about 6 miles from Bath where the virus hasn’t taken such a devastating toll as elsewhere so perhaps that explains her complacency and wanting to break the rules that other’s are obeying for the sake of everyone. If she lived outside Bolton for example maybe she would have a different viewpoint.

In her village they had a helpline running during the height of lockdown for anyone who needed groceries and were staying safe at home. I know because my dd was one of the coordinators.

Poppyred

Love Bel Mooney always full of wise words and common sense.

I think she is rebelling against the rules that change on an almost daily basis...and never makes much sense.

The situation is fluid so how can the regulations be fixed and rigid?

Ranting that the rules aren’t being set for each persons convenience and individual circumstances is ranting to cause dissension and increases the chance of young people ignoring the guidelines because “Granny/Grandad hates Boris and disagrees with everything the scientists advise him to say”.

Pathetic and going to lengthen lockdown for us all. If you don’t/won’t understand the changes phone a five year old to explain them to you.

Bel Mooney has always come across as a bit of a drama queen to me.

maddyone: I’m sure you’ve looked into this anyway but in case you haven’t can I warn you that it rains a lot in Kefalonia. For once in my life I went on holiday without taking a raincoat and it absolutely chucked it down. It was about this time of year, too. Hope you do get good weather though.

Kamiso I feel you should be telling that to Bel Mooney not us !

Oh, everybody wants a "rule" that will suit them and what they want to do.

If only people could apply a tiny bit of intelligence and restraint, limit their social contacts, and keep their distance.

If only.

trisher. I am one of those people who whip off their mask the minute I come out of a shop. When I have to wear a mask I have to fight against the panic I feel. Every minute is a nightmare.
Please consider that others may feel the same.
Out of doors the transmission of the virus is hugely deminished as long as distancing is maintained.

I'm sorry you have such attacks Espee but I am absolutely certain that most people could wear a mask if they chose to. My DS has asthma but he wears a mask. The people I have watched are not social distancing either. Standing in groups to cross the road, walking too close to others, crowding onto the pavement. They think like you that they are safe outdoors, they may be safer, but that doesn't mean there is no transmission.

janeainsworth larger shops have security staff to deal with shoplifting they could take on the mask refusers. Smaller shops already operate numbers being admitted. It would just be a matter of adding masks to that.