Up to the 2nd December.

Thank you Tillybelle. And good luck, good health, good wishes, good everything, to you too and to everyone.
Cheers! I'm going to be cheerful if it kills me !

I agree with you Tillybelle. I'm horrified by anybody talking about people being alive who shouldn't be and describing people as "wimps".

What guidelines are available for grandparents over 60 childminding in lockdown?
We are 62 and 71 and look after grandson one day a week over the border in Scotland
surely nationwide guidance is necessary?

My daughter (a first year university student) was told prior to the announcement that all lectures would be online until March, at least. She's in halls with 15 others in her flat. Without fail, every single one of them is staying to the guidelines - no partying (a few drinks once a week - strictly in their bubble, in their flat - she doesn't drink as she has a medical problem that doesn't allow her to). They all desperately want to come home for Christmas so they're doing all they can to ensure it. They are sensible young adults who know they will be blamed for spreading the virus when, in fact, the vast majority are petrified of doing so, so are behaving. We only hear of the covidiots. I know this lockdown will cripple people financially (myself included) but what else can he do? And yes, I think he should have sanctioned a proper lockdown with schools, colleges etc closing as these are places where it is spreading exponentially and, obviously, it spreads outwards from there and affects staff who can't keep a social distance (because, kids!) and aren't allowed masks. Schools etc should be able to take these weeks to create a rota system where some kids are in one week, off the next, etc., and learning is concentrated in the weeks they are in. Fewer children in class, more social distancing enabled, less risk of catching the virus. And yes, I know this would go down like a lead balloon with working parents, but something needs to happen until we can get control. Oh, almost forgot- and close our borders! Why are they still open? (Phew, I think living alone has finally got to me - I needed that little rant - all done now, nothing to see here...)

My 70th on 2nd Dec,....I should think the chances of lockdown ending then is nil ....my son missed his 40th ....my daughter her 45th....my grandson his first teenage birthday. All this year.... so why not make it a full round!!??

growstuff. apart from the previous year's deaths at that period, presumably.
I put it there to be quick.

However my rather geeky watch over the statistics did find that the flu deaths in UK were higher.

Of course there are many rates of death that are a disgrace imho in the UK such as TB although it is improving. Cancer obviously remains a big priority and the lockdown caused delays and interruptions in diagnosis and treatment for different reasons.

We could discuss it for ever. I simply agree with those who say I am glad I do not have to make the final decision. I do not envy the PM. I think we need to support his decision and do our best.

For political reasons the Government had to try a lock down to slow down the spread rate, it will probably help. There are a great many exemptions key workers, schools, child care and many others, so plenty of scope for bending the rules, in the past 3 months there has been plenty of rulebending.

Infection rate will certainly rise again afterwards, the best we can hope for is a vaccine in the new year, otherwise most of us are going to be exposed, if we already haven’t been.

Tillybelle ?

Saggi

I'm so sorry!

I remember you have other struggles too.

Just think what an amazing big family party you will have when the time comes that it may be arranged! There is nothing to stop a postponed Party to celebrate all those important milestones!

Personally I think Boris has 'Brain Fog' and is having difficulty assessing the situation - probably taking advice from all quarters! I know I am vulnerable but think this 2nd spell has been brought about by those who decided (in their wisdom) to ignore social distancing. I did go out last week because I suspected this would happen. I'll miss the family, but as long as I have the internet............

Perhaps the horrifying prospect of ice rinks needing to be utilised to store bodies if morgues overflow might bring it home to people the severity of our situation, and perhaps shake up the selfish numpties who state that nothing is going to stand in the way of their Christmas!

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52113433

I have to say it was so tragic Boris would not listen and could easily have had a full ( including schools and universities) from September and everything would be easier now.
I really thought, naively, that yesterday the announcement was delayed as he had heard from the educational professionals and was going to rethink a sensible option.
This is not a proper lockdown and cannot work. Universities have to send home now all students who can work on line and maybe just keep people with lab work in Universities for now. It will have to happen eventually. Schools could be given a variety of options depending on circumstances to go online or open part time or at least have children in part time on a rotary basis. It seems crazy to tell over 60s to stay home when many teaching or school and University staff are over 60 or does Boris think students wander in and teach themselves?
More backtracking is inevitable this way and goodness knows when this second lockdown will end . It does not help people's mental health to be treated this way.

That’s all very well if you are not shut up, and not able to see anyone. The reason this thing has spread is because of the ’I’m alright Jack’ attitude

I think we have to face the fact that we are now experiencing a second wave of the virus.

In Denmark we went into lockdown in the middle of March with the positive result that there were relatively few cases and few of those resulted in deaths.

So the lockdown does seem to work if implemented as soon as it is necessary.

Right now we are not in lockdown, but restrictions have been increased. We have to be masked in public buildings, shops, buses, trains and taxis.

Only 10 people may be in one place at any one time.

Restaurants and pubs have to close at 10 p.m.

Teachers and students must be masked in all adult education centres.

Patients and staff must be masked in hospitals and doctor's premises.

The border to Germany is closed again, although there are more cases of Covid 19 on the Danish side of the border than the German at the moment.

We shall see whether al this helps as it did in March where schools and kindergartens were closed as well.

Nobody really knows what to do about this virus, so we are learning by trail and error.

I'm one of the vulnerable groups and I'm fed up of being "locked up", why not lock everyone else up one day per week so we vulnerable and shielded can come out of our homes where we are going quietly mad!

So many deniers and people claiming its all political. I have family in the funeral business and they were full (with deceased) last time around. Luckily numbers started coming down again. They were all literally looking for empty fridge space nationwide. The NHS had to cancel routine ops and treatment last time. The 2nd wave is forecast to be worse. I think personally that we should have closed our borders. Since holidaymakers started going abroad again numbers have escalated in the holiday spots and back home. That and alot of youngsters partying because they don’t think they will get it. Universities are almost all doing online or online plus minimal contact.

DH and I are over 60 but generally fit, he still teaches in a secondary school and it makes me feel very unnerved. Until all the asymptomatic children are tested and found it makes a mockery of safe-guarding staff. Taking their temperature is a complete waste of time and now there are mutterings that keeping windows and door open is not practical in colder seasons. Put on more layers I want to shout! I don't want either of us to get it, yet it is almost inevitable. The idea of bubbles within schools ignores the fact that any family with more than one child is already exposed to multiple bubbles. Teachers with children of their own at other schools are multiply exposed. I agree with GagaJo that smaller groups could have face to face sessions, within well aired spaces, to complement work packs, as opposed to attending school full time. Maybe younger people less at risk who are happy to do work over seeing children who have parents needing to work could help provide a solution, using large spaces that are standing idle because of the virus. They would need over-seeing by safety checked staff of course, but this may help working parents? CCTV/ video linked rooms could help ensure safety too. If Johnson had acted when he should, months ago, we wouldn't be in anything like this position, and yes I do blame Cummings for making people think the rules no longer mattered. Poor old 'Boris'? Fool of a Johnson and his coterie more like.

Coco51

That’s all very well if you are not shut up, and not able to see anyone. The reason this thing has spread is because of the ’I’m alright Jack’ attitude

... or a couldn't care less attitude! It won't happen to me!

I agree with you.

It will be for longer, as that is what is needed. And the pitiful track and trace "system" needs to be revamped before lockdown can stop.

Anneeba Schools aren't sending whole bubbles home anyway ... just the handful of pupils sitting next to anybody confirmed positive. They're also not telling staff and parents when anybody is infected. They don't have to report single incidents to PHE and there are concerns that local authorities aren't always passing on information.

We locked down to late
We unlocked to soon
Were locking down to late
This will go on and on and on
Until this government fully listens and responds to the experts it was false economy to unlock to early, now hundreds of thousands will be very ill & many will die,
Many more will loose their business and employment
Bad handling has made it even worse than needbe
Wake up Boris!! We're all left like sitting ducks !!
So so wrong ..

I don't envy Boris but do feel he acts too slow ,I do believe closing borders would help ,but at the end of day a lot of this is up to us ,we try to be careful as we can when out but do notice people who don't social distance and are breaking a lot of rules we were in supermarket the other day the staff wore masks but we're stood chatting in isles I mention it to two who were blocking people accessing shelves and not distancing and all I got was a tut and being talked about as I moved away.?

Jane10 I agree.
I love the expression 'sair fecht' - just looked it up!

I’m selfish and I think of my daughter on the front line in a hospital already bulging at the seams. Medical staff are still exhausted after previous peak - no holidays for them! - and so there is less energy as they face the second. And there are no staff for the Nightingale hospitals. Many nurses and others left the profession. I wish her and all medical staff safe and well. There are no easy solutions.

Did he say national? I thought this was just for England. Please correct me if I am wrong.