Narcissistic adult children

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hi Bordersgirl I don't agree that the last 4 responses on your list are dismissive of the other person. Relationships are about all the people involved in that relationship, not just the needs and desires of one.

If it is necessary for you to take anti depressants in order to live with your H then clearly, this is a very unhealthy relationship for you to be involved in. Have you thought about contacting Relate? It's OK for you to go alone to discuss your problems and with the experience that this organisation has to offer, I'm sure you would find it useful.

I wish you luck.

Bordersgirl quite a few of those suggested responses would just fire up the ?narc I know!

I find it best not to share my views or emotions with them at all because they end up being used as weapons against me, or twisted and spread as "variations of the truth" gossip aimed at discrediting me in others eyes

notanan2......I know that scenario of old! lol! You have my sympathy

You can think youre getting somewhere with them, finally connecting... but they are just "mining" for details and weaknesses to use against you or throw back in your face!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Isn't it awful that there are some people who actually don't want to be nice

Its a really shocking realisation for those of us who cant imagine being that way.

Its why we stay blind to it for too long..
Then go back for more..
Because we just dont want to believe that there arent at least missguided good intentions in there somewhere

I haven’t been following this closely as I’ve been trying to get my head around all that has happened over the past couple of months with having contact with the gc stopped and then them all moving out suddenly not telling us where they have gone as the scales fell from my eyes. But coming back to it and reading all the posts I wonder if you can help me answer a question that keeps popping into my head. I’m pretty sure my daughter Is a covert narcissist but cannot decide about her husband. Is he one too or is it just the effect of living with her that has affected his behaviour so strongly? He will never say no to her and does the bulk of the cleaning shopping childcare (now we are not there to do it) he will not wake her in the morning to have the kids as she wants to sleep. She spends all his money. But he joins in the gaslighting and the lies.
Can anyone’s experience help me decide? How does your son behave smileless? Does any of this sound familiar?

Our ES behaves in exactly the same way as your s.i.l. Deb. We saw exactly the same behaviour in him, that you're seeing.

Joining in the gas lighting and the lies; oh yes. His wife is a narcissist and he's been affected so much by her that he's become a stranger to us.

Narcisists are as manipulative and destructive to the people they are "nice" to as to their "enemies"

So your SILs and ESs arent necessarily NPD themselves. Ppl with NPD use others as weapons to do their bidding.

You are as unlucky being their friends as being their enemies because it amounts to the same thing.

Maybe in a way you are better being their enemy because as their friend you may never suspect them of being the source of your misfortunes (others falling out with you, problems at work etc)

Deb, I'm not sure how you know how much SIL is doing now that you and DH are out of the picture since you are, well, out of the picture and they have moved, etc. But clearly, he went along w/ the estrangement, etc. Generally speaking, I imagine spouses are often heavily influenced by the narcissist. After all, they live w/ the NPD person and are privy to their viewpoint every day, etc. In other cases, I suspect the spouse just goes along w/ the narcissist to "get along." Again, this is the person they live with, and often they are raising children w/ them, etc. My guess is their main goal in this is to protect the marriage/their family unit, not to discern the truth of the matter, etc. So they join in the CO, lies, if any, etc., even if, sadly, it regards their own parents, and even if it is totally unjust and unfair.

It has worked, the various strategies of mine. I had an invitation to visit my dd tomorrow. I still don`t have a telephone number so hope I don`t get lost, they moved 4 months ago

That's wonderful new craftyonekeeping everything crossed that it goes well.

I had a lovely few hours got a couple of hugs, had lunch and a private chat about her and her husband, little by little she is learning to avoid aggressive verbal reactions when hubs arrives home after a long commute and a hard high octane day at work. She is learning to ignore the fact that he does not appear to help in the house as much as she would like. She is learning to appreciate that he does lots of jobs for her, that he has enabled her to get a property with a few acres for her horse, which many men would not do for their wives

All in all she is learning to cope and is learning coping mechanisms to at least make life nice for their small family. It helps all of them that they have moved to a very beautiful part of Wales from an area 10 miles away. It helps that they now have so many nooks and crannies of wild garden and paddocks that they can enter a small space alone, when they need space

She gave me her telephone number but only after she realised that something could have happened to me out in that wilderness. She asked me to come again and show them how to transplant and prune

I certainly feel happier, all of a sudden there seems to be some hope for their family to survive as a unit. So now I stand back again, no more e mails from me, apart from the thank you today. She knows that tranplants from my allotment need to be done in october. The ball is in her court again and I wait for another layer to be loosened

That's great news craftyoneand will certainly have helped to put your mind at rest.

First post, recently joined and unfortunately I fit into the same category so hope you don't mind if I join the conversation?

craftyone...Like so many other's I still long for that day although not holding my breath, but you have to remain hopeful.

Starlady ...your most recent reply answered a question I've had for a long time and that is does someone 'acquire' NPD or do they learn or adjust to those traits. I never thought about ES as being NPD but his DW most definitely is, along with other MH and MPD as diagnosed professionally.

Like craftyone, they have moved house and I don't have a clue where they live these days, actually I'm wanting to move house myself and will need to check and double-check that they don't live next door or down the street as you can imagine how they would react if I suddenly moved to the same neighbourhood. However they still stalk me on a regular basis, so they are keeping tabs on what I do.

Truly hope things improve for other GP's.

Welcome AnnaNimmity In our experience the partner of someone with NPD learns to adjust to the situation to the extent that as with our ES, they're prepared to go as far as cutting out their own family. This appears to be the case with your son, I'm so sorry.

How do you know they're stalking you? That's very strange isn't it.

hello Anna, keep hope in your heart. I realised that layers had been added because she was worse after her baby was born and much worse after her dad died. I realise that as they go on so they can be peeled away and that is what I am working on. I use the no contact tool, so that she has to make more effort and in the meantime, I get peace of mind. It will probably take my lifetime but she listens to my advice, to know that no marriage is perfect, that it is not a natural thing to live with one person for the whole life. That men need caves

Peeling layers is working, I am keeping a low profile but now have another invite to go to theirs next week on her day off work. I asked to go there this time but took all pressure off by saying I would only be staying for a cuppa. Best of all, I e mailed yesterday, I had suggested tomorrow and honestly thought I would again hear nothing. There is an e mail back today with an emoji heart, she cannot do tomorrow but (this is the breakthrough) she suggested her day off next week instead [smile}

That's great craftyone. I hope you enjoy your cuppa with your D next week.

Great news, Crafty! Glad to hear your tactics are working and DD are making progress! Also glad she agreed to another visit even though you asked for it this time. Since your "no contact" method was working, I would hold off on asking again after this and go back to letting her make the overtures. Otherwise, I'm afraid she might get nervous and pull away again.

Glad her marriage seems to be doing better, too. Is it possible that one of the reasons she pulled away in the past was that there were issues between her and SIL? Sometimes, I've noticed, problems between parent and AC reflect issues in the AC's marriage.

I'm wondering about the comments about her needing to be quiet when this/that behavior of SIL bothers her. Why can't she express her feelings? Why does she need to keep her concerns bottled up? I don't understand that part.

Regardless, I hope you have a lovely visit next week and that things continue to improve.

Welcome, AnnaNimity! My heart goes out to you! Glad you came in to share your issues w/ us, though, and that my post helped.

Since DIL seems to suffer from NPD and MH issues perhaps all ES' energy is taken up in coping w/ that? Maybe he has none left for dealing w/ other relationships, even w/ his mum/you? Could that be part of the problem?

I take it they have cut off contact w/ you, sadly. So it doesn't surprise me that they moved w/o giving you an address (sigh). Like Smileless, I think it's odd, though, that they are stalking you despite having cut you off. So I'm going to echo her question, how do you know they're stalking you? And I'll add, do you have any idea why?

I totally get your concerns about moving and finding out they're your neighbors. Yes, they would proybably be upset, but please remember, it would be their fault for not having given you an address. You probably can find out where they live, however (not impossible, given the Internet). But what a burden to have to think about that on top of all else that goes w/ moving!

Regardless, when ou do move, I hope you will enjoy your new home. And I hope things are eventually resolved w/ ES and DIL.

It'll be 3 years in just under 2 months since we moved here AnnaNimmity and not once have we regretted our decision.

As Starlady has posted it should be possible for you to find out where your ES is living, so finding them as your neighbours wouldn't be an issue. Is there no one you know who knows where they have moved too and could tell you the area so you could avoid it?

I hope you'll let us know how your meet up with your D goes next week craftyone, it's always good to hear of broken relationships being repaired.

Hello, I am new to this forum and have never been apart of any type of forum before. I sought one that would allow me to vent about my estrangement to my children, step children and ultimately my grandchildren. If I am not in the appropriate forum, I trust someone will let me know.
My story is long but the 'Readers Digest' version is as follows:
My 2 stepdaughters loved me and spent most of their time at my home with my 3 children. They were 14 & 12 when I married their father and they have dispised me for 25 years. I still do not know why. They each have 2 children and the oldest child of each was allowed to stay overnights with us starting when they were 5 &7. They adored us and we them. Now the stepdaughters say "I can't be trusted" with the younger children now ages 6 &8.
My daughter is the definition of a narcissist. She now has 4 children which I have to make an appointment to see about every 2-3 months. She had moved in with us on 3-4 occasions (the birth of 3 of her children) at which time I was in charge of caring for the children. Even when we allowed her to move into our rental home, I raised her children. She also says I can not be trusted with her children.
My son is bipolar. He was just out of prison and living with us when he and his girlfriend had a son who I was in charge of caring for. When my son and his girlfriend moved out they both sign guardianship to me. This grandson was 4 when they left him. When this grandson was 7 my son took me to court and got him back. He immediately took him off needed medication, does not allow him to associate with other children, no activities, took him out of school (1st grade) and we are not allowed to see him even though it is court ordered. Whew! I feel a bit better that someone besides my husband will know my story but..... here is the kicker.
I am a retired registered nurse and have been a licensed child care provider for the last 5 years. I have 8 little ones who I adore and all have been known to cry when they have to go home. The mom's &/or dad's will let no one else care for their children and I have a long waiting list.
What is wrong with me?