Harrassment?

Let me disagree a little bit with starblaze a little bit. ?

Estrangement is cruel and raw for both the estranger and estranged. It is goes against all social and natural laws and it is not a decision it is taken lightly and in a whim.

When an adult child decides to estrange a parent, AC does the grieving process too. It is very painful but there is no other way to protect yourself against a threat and toxic influence in your life.

So for all estranged parents, your kids most probably are not jumping up and down in joy when they decide you are no longer in your lives.
They are in pain too.

So in the end, I do agree with SB ?

I strongly dislike the word cruel. Definitely hard for all parties and I agree totally with that. Cruel suggests a deliberate act to hurt someone whereas I didn't do it to cause hurt, I did it to prevent hurt. So cruel is only applicable if you cut someone off to hurt and punish them in my eyes. Generally people who are deliberately cruel eventually want to hurt and punish that person more in the future and get back in contact.

Estrangement is neither good nor bad. It is neutral. Whether it is cruel or beneficial depends entirely on the circumstances and reasons why it happens

Estrangement can be necessary to protect someone and their family from physical or emotional abuse.

Hithere, that is the first time I have ever seen a response from an estranger's perspective that they also feel the pain of estrangement.

It’s caused my husband huge pain. He never ever wanted this. He doesn’t want it now. But the reality is the alternative is not an option.
Doesn’t mean he isn’t devastated.

Joyfulnanna I've seen is said here quite a few times. Even with an awful abusive parent, estranging my mother was the worst time of my life and I nearly went back on it until I realised how much more physically and mentally healthy I had become

If you are physically and mentally healthy now, why can't you use that 'health' as your shield and reconnect on your own terms. If you are now stronger and better, you have the upper hand, surely?

Joyfulnanna -- Because we have gotten healthier we don't want to re-engage because part of being healthier is to not wanting to reenter the dysfunction. We don't want to play emotional head games anymore. Relationships aren't a game/contest or about gaining the 'upper hand' or trying to be 'in control'. Those are all unhealthy/dysfunctional thought patterns.

If our parents would see the dysfunction and move to make the whole family healthier, then I would be in. Sadly I am the sole 'problem' in my family/according to my 'family' so what healthy way would there be to interact with them? There isn't any. It's either rejoining the dysfunction or stay No Contact until the other side can see their part.

Because we may be healthier. But she bloody isn’t
And bottom line is we are happier without her. She brings us no joy. There is no one single reason to have a relationship with her. Why would we put ourselves through that?

Should women do that with their abusive ex Husbands too joyfulnanna? Because healing from being abused before totally means they won't be abused again?

We are healthier because they are not in our lives. I will never have the upper hand with my narc parents. They will fight me every inch of the way. I would become unhealthy again.

I didn't go to cut off directly. I tried talking to them so many times, negotiate family rules, teach ourselves how to better communicate and be more respectful of each other, etc.

It didn't work and I tried 10x times for decades.
Being on guard and policing their behaviour to remind them of the rules they agreed to but they claimed we never talked about it before, or the rule didn't apply because (insert here stupid circular illogical reason), I had to stop.
I had to cut off. It was my only option if I wanted a peaceful life.
I had to stop let them suck my energy
I had to stop defending myself, the right to be my own person and not what they wanted me to be
I had to stop the insanity.
I had to give up the dream of having a civil relationship with them.

Trust me, as a estranged daughter, when people ask about my family and how they are doing, it is very unpleasant.
It is a reminder how I cannot have what I should have according to nature.

From pain in the estrangement, I moved to indifference.
My parents can throw all the guilt ridden messages they want at me. I roll my eyes and I forget it in one second, as they haven't changed. Same old same old.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Smoothie

Welcome.
There is plenty of us located on the other side of the pond (Canada, US)

Thanks all. There's no one size fits all, if I can summarize the last few posts, firstly holy Hannah - you mention that you have a dysfunctional family and that there's alot of blame that comes your way and you've said you'll have nc until the family see the error if their ways. Starblaze - you pose a question about whether I thought that women should reconnect with ex husbands who have been abusive. Bibbity - you seem to be happier without your estranged mother. Hithere - you've said both parents are narcs so you've gone n/c. I will think about Smoothie's post and respond in a moment. What I want all those who have estranged others to think about is, if that person reaches out to you, why would you in your healthier fitter and emotionally stronger state, why would you not give them a chance? The very fact that people are not given second chances are the reason why estrangement endures. I have never initiated estrangement. It is totally foreign to me. I don't understand it. Maybe I'm pig headed but I just wouldn't do that to anyone, I would always find a way to seek reconciliation. I understand that people need space sometimes, esp when starting out in life. But bitterness causes harm, be the change!

Smoothie
I think your expectations of your sister, given her past are too high for her ever to achieve, unless she wants to of course. There's no perfect anything out there.

Hello to everyone on here in Canada btw

Joyfulnanna

Yes, you are being very pig headed.

My parents have had decades of chances. before I cut them off. DECADES - 100s of chances to correct the problem

Aren't those enough? How many more do you think they deserve?

I left bitterness behind by cutting them off. I made the change

Did you tell them why you cut them off? Do they still contact you?

Tell me, did you say to them "do that again and I'll cut you out of my life"?

Joyfulnanna -- You are missing the point. If our parents reached out in a healthy way then maybe we would be open/'give them a chance'. However, if they continue to demonstrate the dysfunction we walked away from? Then no... They don't deserve another chance. As Hithere said, "My parents have had decades of chances. before I cut them off. DECADES - 100s of chances to correct the problem" -- Exactly

Yes, I told them at least 5 times what my deal breakers were.

One was very clear: no means no, please respect my decisions.
They dont seem to grasp that concept

Yet, they claim they do not know what they did wrong

When I told them " my issues are.....", " they rolled their eyes and whined like little kids "not the same talk again!"

Hey Smoothie welcome

joyfulnnanna the chances were all given before estrangement. My mum drove me to a nervous breakdown. Estrangement was the giving up, the letting go, the literal end after trying EVERYTHING I could possibly think of to fix the relationship.

I took a break for 3 months, asked for space, it wasn't given. I was harassed and called and had family members on my back calling me names, repeating lies my mother told to hide the fact she had abused me. Bear in mind I had a nervous breakdown and was extremely unwell/suicidal as a mum with children to care for.

I still agreed to sit down with her and tried very hard to explain that I was hurting too badly and couldn't carry on the way things were. I was ridiculed, sneered at and my behaviour as a small child was torn apart. Every situation I mentioned I had imagined. Nasty comments were made about how I am too sensitive and it was alleged I made up sexual abuse. She also told me I came to her crying age 8 saying I didn't want to sleep in my grandfather's bed but apparently I just said it for attention because I was a difficult child. I was called an embarrassment who would never amount to anything.

I offered counselling together and she laughed in my face.

She smirked and smiled, I cried, no comfort given.

The relationship became over and I stopped wanting it at all.

I grieved the relationship I should have had.

I worked on healing my issues.

I cried until I couldn't any more.

Now I am physically and mentally the healthiest I've ever been.

You don't survive lung cancer and go back to smoking unless you are really stupid. My mum nearly destroyed me.

Worst part? If you met her, you'd probably like her. Abusive people like her pick one victim and use all the abusive tactics available to keep their victims in place and convince others they are wonderful. They are extremely difficult to spot and convince everyone they are the real victim because they love attention.

Still want me to go back to that?

Of course Holy Hannah, thats completely understandable. Very sad that they just can't act with compassion towards you, still. That's not healthy as you say. Hithere, it seems like your parents have absolutely no respect for you. Maybe they never have. Sounds like you've been trying for years to explain why things aren't conducive to a healthy relationship with them.

Hugs, SB

Hithere and Holyhannah I am grateful and proud to know you both even in this small way and I think you are amazing.