Harrassment?

EP's say things like, "And so I feel that many of our estranged or semi-estranged children don’t or won’t appreciate our efforts to be in relationship with them. They don’t see us as having value in their lives. Our sending texts or always being nice probably doesn’t mean to them what we hope we convey. My opinion is that most of these EC do not share our values. Will they mature out of this selfishness? Perhaps. And yes, I always write something to these young women about how their parents may feel about the estrangement and encourage a different perspective. I often get a thank you for giving them something to think about. I am almost always the only responder not saying how wonderful life is once you go totally no contact with these so called toxic parents and families. But I have gotten responses that say how hurt the adult child is that I would say they should consider how their parents feel about no contact. This use of the word hurt makes me chuckle. So sensitive or immature that a nicely worded and kind response of how the parents might feel is seen as threatening. And yes again, different personalities and different perspectives."

And, "For an adult child to “cut off” a parent because they have opposite views or conflicts or are “annoying” is absolutely the height of self-centeredness. It’s an extreme response. It’s immature. You can still have separate lives with occasional contact that is friendly and caring. Even if differences aren’t or can’t be resolved. You don’t have to be enmeshed best friends. Even a superficial relationship still shows some love and respect to the person who raised you and loved you. But there is no need for animosity and complete shunning. That is deliberate harm. Or simply a selfish way of coping with their own feelings."

Question, how 'mature' is your thought process when you believe you are the decider of what/whom is and is not mature? Just because another ADULT is not doing what you want or not doing things the way you think they should be, does not = the other adult is immature.

Question, because EP's see their now adult children as perpetually 'less' mature then them, is this why any objection made about their behavior, to them, is viewed as AC being "disrespectful" or "abusive"? This I kind of wonder at... On one hand many EP's view their AC as "immature" and yet say they are being 'abused' by these "immature adults". Were these parents equally 'abused' by their truly immature kids when they were minors? A parent who can't tolerate being called a 'poopy-head' by a toddler needs to learn more about parenting as do EP's that cling to, "They are just immature brats."

There are alot of extreme examples here. Lots of out and out abuse, lots of hate. To those who have never been on the receiving end of estrangement, you will never understand. It is interesting to read others' accounts of their toxic families and how people are so happy and calm now they are living their own lives. Good for you. You've managed to keep your families safe and your wellbeing in tact. It's only through gentle treatment of yourself and acceptance that you can say goodbye to the strong feelings, so why are they still there. Surely with time, they fade? Or don't they? You only have to think or writes about the person and it all comes flooding back, so you can't truly wipe out the past, or move on if you still feel so strongly. Those of us who are estranged meanwhile, find inner peace. Do you think that's fair?

First of all, so sorry to hear that you and your daughter are estranged.
As others have said, your daughter, for whatever reason , decided she did not want contact with you. You went against this and basically pestered her until she felt that she had to take action to stop you, as was her right.
Unfortunately you may never find out the reason behind it all - if you look into your behaviour in the past - did you constantly turn up at her home uninvited?, give unrequested advice? constantly instruct her as to her and her family's behaviour? or maybe it is something from your joint past that she feels has affected her in some way - or it could be the actions of another that she thought you were aware of and did nothing to prevent.
The only person to tell you is your daughter. Until or if she decides to explain, I'm afraid that you really need to take a back seat and get on with a life without her, hard as it is.
Sorry, but you have done yourself no favours with your action so far.

In the words of Elton John, "sorry seems to be the hardest word"

Those of us who are estranged meanwhile, find inner peace. Do you think that's fair?
Fair to whom?
Us? Or children? Absolutely.

To my MiL? I don’t care you reap what you sow.

And of course my husband will still mourn the fact that his mother has failed.
Everyone needs and wants a mum. No matter how old you get.
To have to a carpet that you don’t get what everyone else seems to have is painful.
That when everyone you know has their parents around for Christmas and you don’t sucks.

But when the alternative to that is so much much worse there isn’t a choice.

Why do you need a mum past your growing years? You don't, you need a friend. Maybe that's where we go wrong. You need to know there's someone to rely on. If you can get that elsewhere, why do you need a mum? If you want a mum you can also find one elsewhere, but nobody else will know you like your mum does. As you get older, roles can get reversed. Same for dads too, you can see their faults, their mistakes, their failings, but you can still care. I care deeply and it's what underlies everything. That's my biggest failing.

Sunnyhaze
Quote 'no reason on my part'?
I am on your side having been treated in a similar manner by one of my DD's.
If any consolation, and not aware how old your GC are,I can assure you there is nothing to be gained by what is seen as harassment so why not leave well alone and let your GC come to you when they are old enough and able to make their own decisions.

* Why do you need a mum past your growing years? You don't, you need a friend. Maybe that's where we go wrong. You need to know there's someone to rely on. If you can get that elsewhere, why do you need a mum? If you want a mum you can also find one elsewhere, but nobody else will know you like your mum does. As you get older, roles can get reversed.*

I couldn’t disagree more.
My mum is still very much my mum.
I can call her and pour my heart out and she is a rock. She is a pillar of support and strength. She is my comfort.
She is a friend. She is someone I actively want to spend time with. To go out for food and I love now being able to treat her like she did for me for so many years.
But while we are now equal adults. She’s still mum.
I had a step mum that I adored. I still mourn her. I struck absolute gold in the step mum department. I can hand on heart say that woman loved me.
But no one will ever ever replace my mum. She is fantastic. And I am sad my husband will never know that feeling.

So your DH has no other woman in his life that can fulfill the role that your wonderful mum is to you.

you could go to court and get grandparents rights. you need to talk to someone about this....

Joyfulnanna
I didn't get the parents I deserve but I dont a person/people to fill those roles.
Life teaches to do without. It's not big deal

I dont need - I ate the verb for breakfast ?

Hithere, are you saying that life teaches you to deal without a parent if you've got a bad one?

Moggie
I am talking, on here, it's fine.

Totally!
I learned since very young I couldn't trust my parents and they never had my back, they would backstab me so often, so I became hyper independent.

This is my case - I cannot talk for others.

So your DH has no other woman in his life that can fulfill the role that your wonderful mum is to you.

Of course not. You get one mum. Other people could take on the roles ish. My mum loves him. But nobody can replace the primal need for acceptance from your parents. That’s basic psychology. What your saying has been very very easily and wildly disproved.

I've needed my mum many times, she wasn't ever there for me, managed to make any stressful situation worse, ruined every special occasion and made everything about her. I still kept asking though, even when I could have had someone there instead who would have actually been loving a supportive.

Its very very sad Starblaze how much you've suffered.

It is sad, for her too. I have 2 daughters, such an amazing relationship with them. Mum missed out on a lot.

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-rules-estrangement/202004/why-should-i-have-apologize-my-estranged-adult-child

There is a lot of unrest in the world right now, with the pandemic and the riots. My daughter and I got into a real heated debate over politics and I said things that I regretted later. I apologized but she wont forgive me.She now wants nothing to do with me.

This post has just answered my question to you on another thread LeeElizabeth. A fall out over differing political views, no matter how strongly believed and articulated surely wont result in a permanent estrangement between mother and daughter.

Hopefully time and distance will enable the situation to be
resolved.

LeeElizabeth -- You said, "My daughter and I got into a real heated debate over politics and I said things that I regretted later. I apologized but she wont forgive me."

What it looks like happened is that your daughter reached her limit.

The thing is, a lot of parents who end up estranged believe it is over 'one incident' or a "minor misunderstanding". That's a myth. Children estrange due to long term and repetitive negative behaviors.

What EAC are tired of is our parents "saying things they later regret" instead of growing up, learning emotional regulation and how to treat their children with equal respect.

I know it's an impossible ask but, IF EP's actually reflected on what they say/how they say it (those "things" they later 'regret') and it was their child speaking to THEM and not in the reverse, how would You react/take what was said? If the answer is, "No child of mine should speak to Me like THAT!" then there's yer problem.

You say your daughter has a 'mental illness' and people with MHI's need the people around them to be solid and supporting. It's one of the biggest reasons I am No Contact with my 'mom'. I couldn't deal with/cope/heal my mental illness while my 'mom' was denying her 'mental issues' -- the ones that made Me 'mentally ill' in the first place.