Child estranges one gradparent

Oh my goodness this is very tough Why on earth would your son punish his mother for going to pieces after losing his sister Normal surely
Is there any possibility that you and your wife could see the grandchild for even half an hour outside the sons home ?
I can really understand you struggling with this it must be heartbreaking for your wife Sorry to be harsh but your son must be a very hard hearted man
I can’t think of any other answers I hope you get better advice from others (has your wife had counselling or other mental health help)

Atleast you know why he's doing it. It obviously effected a great deal if all these years later he's still effected by it. There's no relationship with his mum?

I don't really think there's much you can do? Either stop contact? Cut down contact?

Not much advice really but it's a difficult situation to be in.

Unfortunately there's a lot missing here, before I can go down the route he's being hard hearted. Your wife 'couldnt control her emotions' is a vague way of saying what? Her behaviour obviously impacted badly on him so much that it had far reaching consequences. I know you say she had good reason and while I can sympathise, I wonder if you are minimising the impact on your son. It must be hard being stuck in the middle but I'm not sure you can do or should do anything.

Haas your wife spoken to your son since?
without knowing what actually happened I don't think any of us can pass judgement. I think you should carry on seeing your son though. Maybe some family therapy would useful?
I', sorry about the loss of your daughter

I'm sorry that you find yourself in this very difficult and upsetting situation Essendon.

I am not suggesting you should do this as it is of course entirely your decision, but if it were me, I would stop visiting explaining to my son that doing so was understandably extremely upsetting for my husband.

We have been estranged from our youngest son and only GC for 9 years and I would not see them if my husband were to be excluded.

You say you are struggling with this, as is your wife so perhaps not seeing them as things stand, would be best for you both.

I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter.

How did your wife behave? It must have a long lasting effect on the son, he lost his sister after all too

You can continue visiting on your own and hope the issues between your wife and son will be addressed by them

If you put pressure on your son to include her, you risk losing this relationship

I’m so sorry for your loss OP, and for your wife who has been through the most dreadful thing imaginable.

I’m not sure how long ago this happened, so perhaps time may be a good way to heal? Has your wife been able to work through her trauma and learn coping mechanisms? If so, then perhaps a period of changed behaviour in addition to an acknowledgement of how her behaviour affected you son may be a route for them to restart contact?

Although she has her diagnosis and that is a reason for how she acted, it doesn’t change the fact that some of what she did/said hurt your son enough that he had to withdraw from her to protect his own immediate family and mental health. So although the PTSD is a reason, it can’t change her previous behaviour which hopefully she can acknowledge, apologise for and realise how to avoid repeating.

I’m your shoes I’d continue to see my child and grandchild and maybe after the festive season ask what (if anything) could be done to repair the fractured relationship.

I'm genuinely curious. Has anyone thought of how awful it is for a GP to be sat at home while their partner is visiting the AC and GC they're not allowed to see?

Several months into our estrangement Mr. S. met up with our ES on our ES's instigation providing he went alone. It was the worse and longest 3.5 of my life as I sat at a friends wondering what was happening and what was being said.

I can't imagine what it would be like to know that your husband or wife was seeing the AC and GC, with all the cuddles that that would bring, that you're not allowed to see.

I can't speak for everyone, but I'd never chose my husband over my children and he feels the same way.
I/he would have to suck it up I'm afraid.

If she/he had a rocky relationship with one parent I wouldn't want to leave them with 'nothing'.
I'd want my children to atleast have one parent there.

I suppose everyone is different. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong.

Sorry about the death of your daughter, that must have been devastating. It sounds as though your son has been very badly affected by your wife’s behaviour towards him since than. The reparation has to be between your wife and your son directly, I feel it’s not fair of her to let you know how difficult she is finding you visiting your son and his family and she should not make you feel guilty, because by the sound of it you still have a good relationship with him, and you’re just trying to do your best by everybody. Please don’t let yourself lose your son as well.

I don't think it is about choosing between. It is about working on relationships, keeping doors open, de icing together what works for you in your relationship as a couple and/or what works for you as a couple in your relationship (or non relationship ) with your AC.

I agree with you Poppy that noone is right or wrong, just different, in different circumstances and different relationships.

Essendon some more info in what happened between mother and son would help on making suggestions for you, but quite understand if uou prefer not to say

We don’t know what the mother did, but if it was some form of rejection of her living child for not being the child she wanted, then I would be very concerned that he would view his father’s withdrawal from meeting with him as yet another rejection.

And possibly another time that his mothers needs and wishes are paramount and his needs don’t matter.

How MIL behaved after the death of her son/ DH brother led to our estrangement.
You can understand that grief may have caused the actions while still maintaining that those actions closed the door on the relationship.

Also if my DHs choices and actions led to our children deciding to remove him from their lives I don't see why I should also suffer.

Essendon it's clearly a difficult situation but don't introduce more estrangement into it by reducing or cutting contact.
Do you feel that your son's reaction is understandable even if you don't agree with it?

We are still responsible for our behaviour in our bad times, has your wife taken accountability and apologised? You don't say exactly what was said and done during this time so it is hard to advise properly.

I understand that you having this relationship is hard for your wife but please don't stop having it. First it is a point of contact between you and something to build on for the future and second, it is something your wife must make right with your son, you aren't responsible for her poor behaviour and you shouldn't suffer this awful loss too.

It would be very selfish and self centred of her if she tried to force you to choose her side and stop having a relationship with your own child and grandchildren. It would cause you so much pain to do that, I appreciate you live with her and there may be incredible pressure but she must put your needs first here and if she isn't, that's so wrong of her and something to consider further.

I hope you come back and tell us more so we can give some better advise on how to move forward. I'm so sorry you are in this awful situation.

I wasn't referring to choosing, the OP can keep in touch with their son without going to visit him and the GC. It must be very upsetting for his wife and as a married man and father himself, he must realise his father is being torn between his wife, his son and his GC.

There is no suggestion from the OP that his wife would try to force him to take her side, and even if she had, to say that is "very selfish and self centred" is a very easy judgement to make when you have no idea what it is like to be unable to see your AC and GC because of estrangement.

It would be just as wrong to say that about the son who is excluding his mother and potentially creating a rift between his parents, or the OP who is seeing his son and GC despite knowing how extremely difficult it is for his wife.

He's in a very difficult position for which he and his son must take some responsibility.

She has lost her D, as has the OP, and their son has lost his sister. She was "eventually diagnosed with complex ptsd" which would explain the behaviour that so has sadly pushed her son away. Should she effectively be punished for something that was out of her control?

Everyone's needs need to be considered here and IMO explaining that you cannot continue to visit with your son and GC out of concern for your wife, if that is the decision you make Essendon, is not unreasonable. There are other ways to maintain contact which would have less of an impact on your wife.

But again. If her actions have caused this regardless of the reason it is not on others to suffer further losses. That would be for her to further manage in the therapy she is hopefully receiving.

So sorry about the death of your daughter Essendon and for the way your son is handling it.

My personal feeling is that a married couple or set of parents come as a pair. Anything other than that is divisive and may cause long term problems. I would talk to your son and try to have mediation or counselling to bring them together.

It's not fair of your son to try and divide you. I think the only way forwards is communication with your wife to find out how she feels and what she wants and with your son to offer family therapy.

Haven’t you distorted what OP said OnwardandUpward? It was his wife’s handling of their daughter’s death that he identifies was the issue, not his son’s? It does surprise me that posters automatically take his wife’s part in this. We need more information about what exactly happened before jumping to conclusions.

Smileless - “ She has lost her D, as has the OP, and their son has lost his sister. She was "eventually diagnosed with complex ptsd" which would explain the behaviour that so has sadly pushed her son away. Should she effectively be punished for something that was out of her control?”

This is why it is hugely important to know if this poor lady has done the work required to help herself. Receiving a diagnosis is one thing, actually acting on that to resolve the issues it causes is something else entirely. Although the behaviour was caused by the PTSD, and provides context it doesn’t actually mean that whatever was said or done will hurt any less for her son. I sincerely hope this lady has accessed all the help she needs. Hopefully having a line of communication open via OP may be a way to slowly rebuild a relationship.

This scenario is different then a scenario where a parent is estranged through no fault of their own. In this case, both the estranger and estranged are victims of events that caused the conflict. It is the same as in my case of estrangement.

My mothers abuse led to her abuse of me. In this case, we are both victims. In the OP's case, the partner's experience of loosing a child, understandably, led to undesirable behavior which in turn victimized son. Both parties are victims.

In both cases, the person estranging (me and the OP's son) did so because they felt they needed to protect themselves. Understandable.

Here are the differences in our scenarios though.

My dad stood by my mom and never did anything to stand up for his children, even tough he knew her behavior was abusive. Even now, he tells me to just put up with her abuse because it is the easiest route for him. I am sure you can guess my feelings about having a relationship with him.

In the OP, dad is trying to support both his child and his wife by standing by them both. Why should he have to give up his relationship with his child and grandchildren? How is that beneficial to the Grandchild? Based on posts I have seen on these threads for years, it is thought that it is never beneficial to deprive a grandchild the right to a relationship with a loving grandparent unless there are clear cases of abuse. Why is this case any different?

If the OP chose between his wife and his child, it would ruin his relationship with his child EVEN IF wife and son resolve the estrangement. No matter what, son is always going to look at dad as the person who did not champion him while he lost his sister, then his mother. Son will look at a Grandparent who chose not to have a relationship with his Grandson.

I am thankful every day that my Grandmother always chose not to take my mother's side in our estrangement out of duty or loyalty to my mom. I know how I would feel if she had.

Only the OP can decide what to do, but I hope that sharing my experience will offer a different viewpoint.

I completely agree Onward.

Suggesting the OP maintains contact with his son but refrains from visiting him and his child is hardly taking his wife's side Casdon. It's maintaining the relationship in a way that is sensitive to the situation with his wife.

I also hope that the is OP's wife has access to the help she needs Lolo however, I honestly don't see how the OP visiting with his son and GC can possibly be helping her recovery, quite the opposite I would have thought.

No one is suggesting the OP choose between his wife and his child freedom, and there has certainly been no information given that would even suggest that his wife's illness following the death of their D, resulted in their victimising her son.

I really don't see how you have managed to jump to that conclusion based on the little information supplied by the OP.

Understandably, his mothers inability to process her loss, and her subsequent mental health problems will have affected him, that is however a far cry from deliberately abusive behaviour.

If the OP does decide to withdraw his visits but keep in touch with his son by other means, I don't see how anyone could possibly regard that as him standing by and letting his wife abuse their son.

IMO that is a very unhelpful and unnecessary comment to make.

that should have been 'resulted in her victimising their son'.

But how can the Grandchildren have a loving and close bond with their Grandfather without him being present?
They haven't done anything wrong. So why should they miss out?