It has gone to the legal stage re my Grandson

nannynoo I looked at your profile and you are quite young to have a nine year old grandson. These days women your age could even be his mother. Why are they worried about your health? Of course it is always a good idea to have a backup in case of a short term illness which can happen to anybody, but apart from that, if you don't already do so, make the best of yourself, wear some make up and dress smartly when you have these meetings. Try and come across as confident, well and strong. I know that might be hard to do with all the worry about your grandson, you will probably have had a sleepness night before the meeting, but what I'm trying to say is look after yourself too. Wishing you all the best.

I know nothing about how all this works once the SS get involved but it sounds like they suspect your daughter is drinking and don't want to make the mistake of putting your DGS back with her without being sure so I guess that might be a good thing. I realise your DGS is ASD and that makes it so very difficult for him but imagine him being sent back to his Mum and the chaos which would inevitably be part and parcel of his life before it disintegrated completely. Of course this doesn't take away the upset for you and DGS but the end result could be more positive with the threat of him going back to his Mum completely removed which sounds as if he finds it too overwhelming. At least at a centre it is not your word against your daughters and I suspect that if she if drinking again, it will quickly become obvious because it is an extremely slippery slope for an alcoholic.
It may be they are looking at your role to ensure that you are protected in the case of ill-health and that your daughter will not be able to just step in if you were hospitalised suddenly, which could happen to anyone.
You have done such a fantastic job so far and I am sure that they will let you continue because, with all the best will in the world, it would not be easy to place your GS anywhere else. Hopefully this is a blip in the process which will see you and your DGS return to a more settled future.

nanyoo, from what I know of your history so far, the social services ARE making the wrong calls here. But first things first: your age should not be of concern as you are not even close to being 65. Are you in good health? Or if you aren't are your health conditions well managed? If yes, get a letter from your GP to state this as clearly as possible, with details if necessary (for example suffers from type 2 diabetes which is well controlled with no complicatins. if it remians well controlled the risk of complications is low and long term, in the 15-20 years range). If SS want to go to court, you should be represented. Make sure that you are and that you have the court dates and since they have brought your health up you can ask for proceedings to be delayed until you obtain the letter from your GP. TELL SS about your intentions but ASK the court.
re-contact days. I am sorry to have to say this, but be careful of what objections you raise. If the contact centre is less than 30 minutes walk or public transport from where you live, you have very little hope of doing anything about it.If it takes longer to get there read the rest: If SS have any proof that you take the DGS by bus anywhere else then that objection falls even if it is unfair and can be used to prove you are being obstructive. If it's the impact on your DGS they might be able to wave your objections so there again ask his doctor, preferably a specialist though, to writte a letter stating that the child needs his routine and his rest and the contact center visits disrupt these. Maybe he could recommend a number of times/week or a limit on the duration (one hour). Discuss this with the doctor.
Please note that doctors HATE to write these letters, it's NOT part of their duty and they have to do them on unpaid overtime, so approach this with tact and avoid setting time lines. Remind them gently if reminders need to be sent.
When you get the letters, take them to a case conference if you have one, or send them recorder delivery to the social worker AND her team leader and ask for a meeting to discuss th overall situation in view of this evidence (term it this way). Then offer a solution that helps everybody. Is contact in your home possible? Say twice/week for one hour -90 minutes?

Legray22, MawBroon puts it kindly when she suggests you are new to nannynoos family circumstances.
I'm relieved proper plans are being put in place for your grandson. It's wrong to him, to you and to his mother that this situation has drifted for so long. Have care proceedings been issued, or is this the pre proceedings assessment? Currently, the only people with legal advice are the social work team. That is what happens all to often when children are in so called voluntary care. I suspect that when care proceedings are issued, the family judge and the Children's Guardian (independent social worker) will recommend your legal fees are paid by the local authority.
The Family Rights Group has a good website. You will find good advice from experienced grans and workers there.
If I can help via pm let me know.
Stay strong. Where parents are unreliable about parenting assessments or contact, it's usual to expect them to either phone to say they are on their way, or to have to arrive before the child is taken to the centre. It's also the local authority's responsibility to pay for taxis. I know they are under huge financial and staffing problems but the current plan sounds to me to be a tick box excercise to allOw them to say they gave mum every chance. It isn't child centred. Best wishes and I do hope it's resolved in a short period of time.

So sorry to hear about your troubles,just sending a big hug and hope all turns out well for you.

Oh nannynoo you have my deepest sympathy I know just what your going through. We have a special guardianship for our gd which has taken the burden off because we know we would have had all what your going through.
My daughter is also our gd guardian because of our age,my daughter is her aunt.
Is there anyway you could be able to do.that?
Can't believe you have to go through hat, poor little lad, my heart goes out to you both,

I'm not new here but don't pop in very often, so I don't know the history of this, nannynoo. Save to say my cousin is an alcoholic, fortunately her children were teenagers before it really affected them, but I well know that all the forcing/cajoling/bribery in the world won't cause an alcoholic to solve the problem - one day your daughter might do it, or she might not.

It seems that the little lad is in excellent care in your hands, you sound a very sensible - as well as loving - woman, and I hope it all goes well for you.

Rather than involving the boy in this idea of a trap for his mum, why can't they do what the Inland Revenue and DSS often do, and snoop on your daughter to find out if she is still drinking? I know you can't answer that - but it's a pity if they won't cos this little boy's life is at risk of disruption, just at a time when he desperately needs stability. Is someone just ticking boxes?

Good luck.

Nannynoo, my heart goes out to you and I wish you all the very best. I understand only a little of what you're going through and can't really offer any advice except try to look after yourself so that you can continue to look after DGS as well as you obviously have been doing. Your SW seems to be fighting your corner and can see that you're doing your very best. Good luck and keep coming on here - ignoring unhelpful comments!

Nannynoo , keep strong. I have no advice for you, but I do have some understanding of the problem. I do wish the social workers and the family courts would speak to the child. The children have rights, but the powers that be seem to disregard this fact. Our legal system needs to understand how much damage and distress is caused to the children by their actions.
My very best wishes to you.

rosesarered - My daughter is not allowed to know my address , my daughter said she is not seeing that boyfriend any more and yes I told them about him , thank you for your support

legray22 - What do you expect me to do - I cannot drag her to meetings , force her to have counselling , tell her who to hang out with , force her to get help and believe me the whole family have tried , and tried and tried! It may help if she was HONEST with me but that does not seem possible right now as she will say she has stopped drinking and is fine and once I find out it is not true she won't broach the subject at all because everything is 'still fine' and all the encouragement and support I did give her did NOTHING to stop her drinking - I even lived with her for 5 months and took care of her as well as my Grandson but ended up with complete burnout and ill myself and have done everything I can think of to support her

radicalnan - They have offered to pay for my Grandsons taxi fares home , his school transport will drop him at my daughters house , I get there just beforehand , supervise contact and then we go home but I am happy that it is in a home environment even though he has already said no he does not want to go as it may be starting as soon as tomorrow

Belinda49 - Not half!! I am so happy I have this support on here!

ajanela - I took all the dental appointment dates , addresses and contact numbers along with me to the meeting today and also added his opticians appointment to the list

Unco-operative with who? My daughter? If so what can I do? She is a 31 year old adult and I do feel for her but I can't let that feeling come in the way of protecting my Grandson if she is not managing to stay sober , which I can't make her do

Skweek1 - I am so sorry to hear what happened to you!

At the meeting today the manager said if my GS is having increasing meltdowns then they ''have to look at the placement'' in other words if he has more emotional reactions due to this it will be MY fault which makes me feel she has no understanding of Autism tbh

quizqueen - I can just about get him on the bus but he hates the crowds and noise etc due to his Autism and if he gets distressed and starts making his 'unhappy noises' I get people staring , tutting and being downright rude and I already have a stressed little boy on my hands so the tutting etc makes things worse , saying that I am working on it for short journeys atm and he is doing well and we can gradually increase it but my daughter lives 10 miles and 2 buses away so it would be hell

In a taxi he is so calm and happy and relaxed so am glad they have supported this and agreed to pay his taxi fares home

Suze56 - Yes I have yet to speak to my fostering social worker but I will be ringing her in the next few days to update her etc

If my daughter is under the influence contact is suspended immediately

She has agreed to be breathalysed but social services do not require it , contact will be at her home now , so I will get there early and when he arrives will either go and do something fun with him as a plan B or take him home , whichever he is up to / for if she is not home ( we have been here before so to speak and I always had a plan B if she did not show but then I also had to deal with the emotional fall out for him afterwards as of course he was disappointed if he is expecting to see her )

starbird - It has to start immediately , possibly as soon as tomorrow , no option at all to 'delay' it , there is nothing to worry about re my health - I have not even needed to see my own doctor for the whole 2 years little one has been here and I would have if I needed to but I have no health conditions and usually just get the usual coughs and colds etc

I wore a beautiful dress to the meeting which I got complimented for twice on the way home! lol some make up and the manager even said ''wow'' when she saw me , not that I feel it helps anything but you never know lol

icanhandthemback - Thank you for your lovely comments you are so right at least this should prevent him from being bounced back and forth which can happen

It's like I have to go to the moon and back to keep my Grandson with me and he is an absolute treasure but he does have some difficulties which are not easy to handle and which are probably set to get worse with puberty etc but I am prepared for that and to see him through all his hard times because I love him so much but they seem to think at 10 years old with learning difficulties and some behaviour problems he will be 'snapped up' for adoption and they will be doing me a huge favour if they let him stay with me so this is always hanging over my head and they said he would be 'easy to place' but tbh I do have my doubts on that one

ap123 - I am in very good health apart from being a bit overweight but it does not cause me any problems ( stress eater ) they were fine about the transport as it is 10 miles from home and my only concern raised was about the possible emotional / mental impact this huge change will have on him but I did not object as such , it completely backfired on me anyway as she said if he has extra meltdowns there must be a reason for it at home ( I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that one )

Contact at my home is not possible , they told me if my daughter found out where I lived my GS would be removed immediately but then today asked why it is not an option to have it at my house but did not give me a chance to answer lol

Iam64 - I may need to PM you as I do not fully understand what is going on tbh lol

I have tried logging on to the FRG to get some help on the forum but it locked me out as I forgot my password so they are still sorting that out

Madmeg - They are not just ticking boxes but doing it so urgently now that there is no time to breathe lol

Supernan - You are right , how about asking my GS how he feels about it all? The bottom line currently is he want to live with Nanny and still see Mummy and was happy with that arrangement ( once a week ) until he was told by his Mum he has his room at her house now which threw him off course into confusion

*I have some real confusions I need some help with!

I do not understand why it is going to court for SS to get a care order when we could go to court for me becoming his guardian instead , the way they are doing it is they become his legal guardians but it seems to be because I said ''I needed more time'' way back when I was not ready to go for an SGO / was advised not to rush into it or let them pressure me into it / my fostering social worker advised me to ask for more time as I needed it they have come to the conclusion it is ME who has delayed proceedings therefore they have to step in now and become his guardian because I took too long but I told them yes I wanted to go for the SGO ( full guardianship ) when they asked me about 6 months or so back but nothing was done

The SW said to me at the meeting that it wasn't a real yes when I said yes to her and that the yes I said to the previous SW was half hearted as well!

I have never said no to guardianship if necessary - I just needed more time but now it seems the whole delay in permanency is down to ME and nothing to do with them doing nothing once I said yes to it

It is going to take 6 months+ of this extra contact before it goes to court so why not just go for me having guardianship instead of them? They seem to be implying I was reluctant and stalled things so they now have no option but all I did was ask for some more time 1 year ago then said yes every time they asked me a few months after that if I was willing to go for guardianship but that seems to have been ignored now they are in trouble with the legal dept and I have copped all the blame!

I also don't trust that the extra family member being assessed is in case my health fails or I die but family have suggested to get it in writing at the family group conference we have to have ( I AM WORRIED THEY ARE NOW LOOKING TO PLACE HIM ELSEWHERE because I was not forthcoming when they were pressurising me into getting an SGO and the fact that I asked for more time which they took as a no to me offering him any permanence which is not true! )

I have been made to feel it is MY fault this case has dragged on for so long all because I initially asked for more time they have construed that as I was against permanency here with me all along and now I am paying the price because THEY will become his legal guardian if my daughter fails her parenting assessment but then IF ( I hope ) they offer me going for an SGO after they go to court for a care order it is delaying permanency even MORE as why can't they just do the SGO process now instead as I made sure my YES to guardianship was as clear as day today and am not sure what part of my yes was not a yes before or that to them it seemed half hearted so counted as a no!

When I said yes to them I meant yes but my main worry is that they could use it against me in COURT and say I was not offering him permanency which is why they have to be his legal guardians now , not me

I will bring this up at the LAC review next week but the LAC reviewing officer has said he is furious the SGO process has not been started yet and they had a meeting and I have a strong feeling they blamed me for that saying I have said I was not ready or 'don't seem keen' when I say a direct YES to them about being willing to go for guardianship but then that gets them of the hook for not acting on it when I did first day yes around 8+ months ago as they could have completed the process by now but I thought it was on hold because they were thinking of returning little man to his Mum which was what they seemed to be working towards at the time

I think as soon as they found out she was still drinking it went to legal planning but they still could have assessed me along side Mum or even NOW surely??? I don't know why they did not start the SGO process as soon as I said yes to it but the SW said today ''it wasn't a real yes'' when it WAS!!!

I have a feeling I am being scapegoated here but all I care about is that if lo cannot live with his Mum that he remains with ME permanently but they seem to be putting obstructions to this and bringing up things I have not done properly like his dental visits so I don't know how it can now be changed to me going for guardianship instead of them as it seems to me it could just possibly delay things even more now and that me asking for more time has meant I have been blamed for the WHOLE delay and the SW who was 'on my side' is now going with everyone else as she is the one who said my yes was not real!

I don't trust that having someone else in the family assessed is for the reasons they say it is for either which is terrifying me and they have got me over a barrel now as they are going full steam ahead with the legal stuff so they have the ultimate say in what happens which is fine as long as they don't remove him from me for not co-operating when I had my ''chance'' of going for an SGO a year ago which I obviously BLEW by asking for more time ( and therefore this whole delay being my fault )*

They also seem to be copping out of things now too and said IF ( I was allowed by them to go for an SGO ) that I would get LESS money than I do now , but have read that a looked after kinship child has to get the same guardianship level allowance as they were on before they became an SGO , but they have said no to that as they have all the power again now and what they says goes

( If they become his legal guardians I will have to do and agree to EVERYTHING they say! ) so I would not even get the financial help that they did actually promise me before and they can relent on anything now and there is nothing I can do because it is at the legal stage!

I should have said YES and given into the pressure even though I was not ready as now there is hell to pay for it it seems!!

The courts have criticised local authorities for using voluntary care, as they have for your grandson.
The family courts expect the l.a. To complete a pre proceedings assessment. This is meant to avoid delay and repeated assessment once the matter is put before the court.
In your position, I'd be finding a solicitor who is experienced and whose name is included in the list of lawyers approved on the Children Panel. This has gone on far too long.
Care proceedings in situations like those of your grandson will very rarely result in a child being removed from the care of a gran/ family member. More likely that the placement will be secured. It could be b a care order ensuring the l.a continue to pay fostering allowances for a period of say twelve months to make sure the l.a also have responsibility for contact. More likely, a SGO is made, with continued financial support written in to final agreements.
It's so stressful but try to stay calm. A good lawyer would help
It's part of the social workers duty to help the court know about 'the wishes and feelings' of the child. All sw have a duty to talk with the child, find out what they want and how they're feeling, help them understand what's happening in their lives.
The other thing that may reassure you is to phone the independent reviewing officer. Their role involves ensuring through regular reviews that matters aren't being allowed to drift

Iam64 thank you for being the voice of reason and a place of calm as my head has been buzzing with doubts , queries and lack of information which makes my brain go into overdrive with worries , fears and ''what if's'' all of which are not helpful but I NEED accurate information and for some reason it calms my heart even as it calms my mind

It is emotional due to the depth of relationship I have with my GS of course and how IMPORTANT he is too me but that is a good thing yet I need to be rational and clear lol

The support has been invaluable as things start clicking into place and NONE of this has been explained to me by SS as they don't tend to 'explain' things just 'state' things I need to comply with and then that's it lol

( But then I am left in a state of confusion and worry and start worrying they are being secretive as it feels they are not being transparent with me as they don't answer all my questions or they give half answers or different answers from the manager and sw which don't add up! )

I like to be clear with things but nothing is crystal clear when dealing with them for some reason but it helps me indeed to know the law etc otherwise I am left baffled and tbh worried about it all

Perhaps they assume I know the law when I don't! lol

It is second nature to them but not to me - I just trundle along caring for my GS day to day AND DO WHAT THEY TELL ME TO DO!

Was thinking about the 'being supportive to my daughter' which there are some people who accuse me of not doing and I can support her up to a POINT but there IS a POINT up to which I can do it and safely care for my GS

I find it difficult that when we are 'being nice to each other' is when we are actually being fake tbh because when the REAL stuff / feelings come out there is resentment on both sides , me for having to go through all this and go through all the stress etc plus what my GS has gone and is going through and her for the fact that I have her son! When her true feelings come out it is downright nasty and abusive and it's like I sit and wait for the real daughter to emerge which is usually when she does not get her own way but I have never said to her what I really feel as I do not want to rub her face in it as I know she has A PROBLEM which must be extremely hard for her to deal with and I find it downright SAD

So like I said I can only support her up to a point and in the midst of that she is not being very real with me , or others , or even herself tbh and my true feelings of frustration with her ( for not getting help and for the lying etc ) are not shown to her either as I do not think it would be constructive for either of us to do so at this point but she happily lets rip with the abuse lol

P.S She thinks I am trying to 'steal her son from her' when that is NOT the case!!! I am trying to keep him SAFE!

Glad that Iam64 has practical suggestions for you nannynoo as I have no knowledge about that, just in knowing about autistic little boys, that I do know, and how difficult life can be both for them and you.Taking on your DGS (I would do it too) and bringing him up, at an older age is always going to be hard, without all those other stresses on you.Stay calm, stay strong, always be reasonable, it will go in your favour.?

I think some people see kin who adopt or become guardians to their Grandchildren or other family members as heartltess *** who don't care about their daughter , son or grown relatives which is so untrue , they want to protect the kids and themselves from the drama , lies , manipulation , stress and utter chaos which comes with addiction along with the roller coaster ride of crying wolf so many times ''ie ''I've stopped drinking'' ( or using ) it becomes like ''yeah , right'' you think to yourself but they can cry wolf so many times that if in genuine recovery it is a surprise that anyone believes them!

But you usually know in your gut but it is hard to have a genuinely good relationship with someone you do not trust they will look you in the eye and lie through their teeth to cover up what they are doing

You can end up swapping roles , the unwell one seems absolutely fine and the one who is supposed to be well is mad , stressed and ill because of 'it' it being the loved one's alcoholism or other addiction

I felt I was going mad at times when I was getting involved with all my daughters 'stuff' but then I realised it was not MY madness but hers sadly ( for want of a better word than mad but that is what it felt like

You have put that well nannynoo. In curvumstances like those of your daughter, Many drug/allcohol specialists would say six months of proven abstinence before a parenting assessment takes place. A further proven six months before an attempted rehabilitation. the new family court scheme for substance misuse parents involves extensive support so decisions can be made for the children in a timescale that fits their age and needs.

I am glad they are going to be thorough!!

She has not proved abstinent but they are still doing the parenting assessment as a 'last chance' and so they can take it to court as she has had 3 years to get help etc with her drinking and she said she was sober for 7 months and was presenting sober each week

The SW said my daughters solicitor will argue that there are parents who drink whose children are not removed for it and there are many functioning alcoholics who care for their kids and hold down jobs etc but what about what my GS has already been through & he needs to go forwards not backwards now

I feel my daughter's dream would be to get her son back but still be able to carry on drinking moderately enough not to totally mess up and be able to 'function' to the outside world but what would really go on behind closed doors???

I think she is a functioning alcoholic at the moment , presents sober during the day / early evening and then drinks in private afterwards / in the evenings , her Dad is the same , holds down a job , drinks every night and ''doesn't need help''

This article is very interesting as I have always said it is my daughter's mental health I worry about re caring for my GS whether she is drinking at the time or not! ; www.netdoctor.co.uk/healthy-living/wellbeing/a26531/functioning-alcoholism-effect-on-family-children/

Little man is confused right now and I get confused as well as she presents herself so well when she is sober it is almost like an utter Jekyll and Hyde situation! WHO is my real daughter? The one I was with today who is behaving fine and was actually quite good with my GS at contact or the other one hidden away behind closed doors who she does not show to the world??? I don't get to see 'Mr Hyde' and nor does my GS but I have the advantage of knowing ''he is there'' but my GS doesn't!

I'd say she is both but mainly the 2nd one as it is the bit which is hidden whereas the rest is out in the open and it feels like the real her is well hidden away

My GS was happy to be at his Mums today it seemed , then he got overwhelmed by all the changes etc and had a mini meltdown , then he was fine , wanted to stay at Mummy's house , then didn't and wanted to go home , then wanted to stay at Mummy's house then changed his mind and wanted to go home again so this poor boy is TORN right now and I sense he is feeling insecure

He may get reattached and want to stay with Mummy but then it all goes pear shaped because of her now ''hidden habit'' which usually comes out in the wash at some point and then he is dropped from a great height again and devastated and it is like he is working out if he can trust her again and is not fully sure yet if he does but I don't think it is good if he trusts her again and gets his hopes raised and then dashed again!

I was finding it hard being there too as I am not used to it and it is such a change to my settled routine at home even though she tried to do the same things , it wasn't near the same / as relaxed or genuine but they want to see how she copes with it all longer term , so we'll see , my concern is for little man tbh as she presents herself so well it even gets me confused too!!! lol

I don't agree with them messing with my GS's head just so they can ''gather evidence for court''

If I am not careful I can get taken in my her too , then comes the disappointment when the 'other behaviour' comes to light

She is so ruddy convincing when she is sober though and that is what she is using to her advantage , she is a brilliant saleswoman at work and can sell ice to the Eskimo's

I think we / SS need to 'dig deeper' though so I am glad they are doing things like the hair strand testing as I do NOT want him bounced back and forth if he is sent home and it fails or that he stays home for life but she always has 'problems' or a problem with alcohol etc as it will impact on my GS still and I don't think things would really improve for him until she proper sorts herself out ( and is ruddy honest but I can't see that happening as yet for some reason , well the reason being she currently wants to keep it hidden and covered up and have the 'best of both worlds' as it were! )

I've been following this for a while but I
I've probably missed bits so I'm sorry if I get things wrong.
I'm a Family Group Conference coordinator and I'm slightly concerned that you've said that you have to have an FGC. It's a voluntary process and that should have made clear to you. Having said that, it's a brilliant opportunity for you to draw up your own Family Plan to be presented in court. It's also the time to ensure that your dgs has his voice heard. He can have an advocate who has responsibility for ensuring that his thoughts and hopes and wishes are kept clearly at the centre of the process.
Please feel to pm me if you've got questions and good luck!

Ah thank you Kezia , yes I have been told we HAVE to have one and it is going to be set up soon

I don't mind someone in the family to be assessed in case my health fails or I die but there is no other reason for anyone else to be assessed for and other reason than that tbh so we will make it clear

It is also to discuss what support they will give my daughter if her son is returned

I think because it is going to court it has to be shown as have been done , but I don't know , don't understand it all tbh , am just going along with what they say / tell me to do so I can keep my Grandson if needed and give him the security he needs x