Daughter no. 1 1967, my hubby had just enough time to kiss me goodbye before he was sent away with my outdoor clothes. He went to work the next day. Daughter 2, 1973 much the same. Daughter 3 1982 he was encouraged to stay because of staff shortages. I really would not have wanted mum in there and certainly not my mother in law. I have never wanted to be in with my daughters as I think it would have been an intrusion into a magical moment. Of course if they didn't have a partner it would have been entirely different. Social media has changed things, not for the better.
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Grandparenting
Impact of Social Media on grandparent expectations and experience.
(63 Posts)I’ve always been greatful that I was a teenager before social media, and that my daughters’ teenage years just preceded the prevalence of smartphones (although DD was on MySpace- if anyone remembers that!)
However I’ve been musing on some of the threads on here and on Mumsnet about conflict between generations over grandparent involvement with very small grandchildren and I wonder if SM and the media are playing a part? What do grandparents on here think?
When I gave birth, it was very unusual for mums or particularly MILs to be in the delivery room. I don’t know anyone who had anyone but their partner. I also own a lot of cartoon collections of the Thelwell era and maternity wards are a surprisingly common theme. In those days even dads weren’t in the delivery room but cartoons often feature dads in the waiting room or looking through the nursery window for the first time. None include female figures, there was no expectation of mums waiting it it out or MILs being there to support their sons.
I first became aware of family camping out on American TV shows about 15 years ago, where the delivery room sometimes included both sets of parents and the odd sibling.
Now there seems to a lot of angst about how to tell mum or MIL they are not wanted in the delivery room. Of course if the patient wants support from her mum or MIL it’s lovely that hospitals now enable this, but where does the expectation come from? I do wonder whether seeing friends’ posts from the delivery room of “Precious first granny cuddles with baby Alfie” makes other women feel embarrassed or rejected that their own children don’t want them there.
I adored my mother and liked my MIL, but my mum would have been a nightmare as she’s a panic-monger and hyper-sensitive, so if I wasn’t grateful enough for her attempts to help she’d have been in tears etc. MIL would have been better but I still wouldn’t have wanted her there while I was endlessly shitting on a bedpan and mooing like a cow.
Likewise expectations of grandparenting with tiny babies. In the 60’s and 70’s, my mum spent 8 days after a straightforward delivery in a nursing home with strict visiting hours and restrictions. Like most women of her class and generation she bottle fed and we were taken to a nursery at night so she got sleep. She left rested and healed. Her mum came to stay for a couple of weeks as there was no parental leave then and dad would have been hopeless anyway, and she cleaned and cooked and let mum rest and look after us.
With mine, it was a much shorter stay in a busy, noisy postnatal ward with regular nightfeeding from the start. Thankfully after DH went back to work after a week’s parental leave, mum came for a week and did as her mum had done, yes of course she had cuddles, but she basically took over all the housework stuff and let me recover and establish breastfeeding and care for my baby. I was lucky she wasn’t working and offered to do this. It was lovely to have her and she was brilliant, but I was still glad when it went back to being just the three of us, it was time.
Now, new mothers who arrive home hours a few hours after complex births, or after a night in now hellish post natal wards, who might, like me, have spent 36 hours in labour with only a couple of snatched dozes, - are shutting family out from the baby if they don’t want visitors to their home straight away.
Neither my brother and I nor my girls stayed with grandparents until older, I think we were around 4, and my daughter started to sleep over a couple of times a year at around 2.5 I think. There was no pressure from grandparents who saw them regularly at our house or theirs or for Sunday lunch out.
Again, if other parents are keen for couple time and want babysitters early then great, - if there are willing grandparents, but there now seems to be a thing about grandparents having “alone time” and “bonding” with tiny babies. I understand that with young children, being alone together means you can be uninhibited and silly and fun in a way that is more difficult if others are around, but I don’t think alone time with someone else’s tiny baby is something anyone should expect. Babies need to be close to and bonded with their primary caregiver, the rest comes later. My mum had and has a very, very special and close relationship with my DDs that didn’t suffer from not whisking them off to her house as a babies.
Again I wonder if all the photos on SM of baby Alfie snug as a bug in a Moses basket at grandma’s house creates the impression that everyone else is having their baby grandchildren over and if you don’t you are somehow lacking. What SM doesn’t tell you is that it might be 3.00 pm and the baby’s mum and dad might be 2 cms out of shot in the same room! People are great at curating their Social Media posts.
Similarly thanks to Facebook, everybody can see when other people have seen the baby as they will post photos, so people get the hump because they haven’t “been allowed” to see the baby since Thursday, and they [parents’ best friends] aren’t even family. Plus the bloody granny wars with people tallying how often the other grandma has seen the baby.
Years ago there was none of this as nobody knew!
So I think that SM contributes by
a) creating a false
impression that everyone else
is virtually glued to their grandchild from birth
b) inviting comparison and then raising feelings of insecurity and rejection if you don’t find yourself in the bosom of the new family from the off.
What do others think? Is SM contributing to the problem or is it just a mirror to changing times and expectations?
I love having a lot of involvement with my four GC. And yes I was there when they were all born - at the mother's request, not mine although I really loved being there.
My own children saw very little of their grandparents - my husband was a serviceman and we never lived anywhere near either family. So my children saw their grandparents about once a year . Mind you , none of the grandparents ever made any effort to come to us - it was always " when are YOU coming to see US".
I'm really happy to have close involvement with all my grandchildren - hugs and kisses, teaching them to bake, sleepovers and holidays are a wonderful part of my life. And yes I do put happy snaps on my Facebook page when the children are here. It's a great way to share the happiness.
Stumbled upon this thread a little late but definitely feel SM is a double edged sword. Love to share pics of GD but get fed up with opposite nan posting about 'my granddaughter ' when I am always putting 'our' granddaughter as there is also my first husband and partner to consider. She belongs to all of us not just one person! Also think she's very cheeky when she takes my photos of GD and posts them as her own. Don't want to be in a battle of the nans so have now walked away limiting my time on SM.
My mother and I were very close but I would never have wanted her at the birth. We were both quite happy to wait till she could come and see us at home. To be honest I would have been quite happy without DH there, but it was the modern way to do it.
It has not really been an issue for us, but I have heard from a number of mums that their parents/ILs were getting upset over social media. Typical complaints:
"I'm not allowed to post pics of my grandbaby but the OTHER GPs get to/all my friends get to!"
"I'm not seeing my GC as often as I'd like, but I see photos of them with the OTHER GPs all the time!"
"They posted the birth announcement on SM BEFORE they called me! They should have called ME first!"
I've also heard of other extended family members posting birth/pregnancy announcements on behalf of the parents BEFORE the parents had had time to post one themselves.
Now, I'm not saying that everyone is that way. There are lots of people, my parents and ILs included, who are very respectful about social media. But it does strike me that there is a lot of potential for the whole, "But so-and-so gets to have/do/go to x, why can't I?" Really, when any adult does this, it's a very childish thing to do.
I haven’t, and never have had Facebook. All my children do, but apart from friends saying occasionally that they saw that one of them had posted something interesting, I haven’t the remotest idea what they post, and frankly I’m not interested
Yes, I think that SM is definitely the cause of conflict and feelings of insecurity/upset.
When I was a GP-to-be, I was constantly seeing facebook posts from friends, and members of my family, showing happy family snaps of them with their GC, and posts about what they were doing, and where they were going, etc. They are all very much 'hands-on' grandparents, who seem to be in constant contact with their GC.
Fast forward to me becoming a first-time GM, and I'm in the situation where my son, DiL, and GC live overseas, so I only get to see them on occasional visits.
Of course, I had all the emotions from guilt, upset, and jealousy, that I didn't have the close hands-on relationship that everyone else seemed to be having. However, having read many posts on Gransnet, from other grandparents, I realized that there are many more like me who, for various reasons, don't get to see their GC on a regular basis. That's life! Husband and I now cherish the time that we get to spend with our GC ... and I've weaned myself off facebook!
I first started working as a midwife in 1971, and fathers were being encouraged to stay in the labour ward then. They didn't all do so, but the thought was there.
I didn't have my children until the late 70's but my DH was with me and it was a great help too.
I was there for my daughter's children's births, along with her DH who was happy for me to share the experience. I was really happy about it too ! I feel a great bond with my daughter's children , having seen them born.
My parents were very distant in that way - they just stayed home and expected you to take the children to visit them. It was all very "hands off" and I don't recall the children ever sleeping at their house until they were adults and visiting for a few days .
I'm happy with the way it is now, OP. I love the closeness of our family, even though the miles separate us. Social media is a great way to share news and photos - I'm all for it.
My dh was working an 8 hour flight away when I had my first, nobody was with me, though since I was staying with my parents at the time I suppose my mother could have come but it didn't occur to me, and frankly, since she was always apt to get in a terrible tizz or panic about things - and I'm a fairly private person - I wouldn't have wanted her there anyway. It didn't bother me at all being on my own.
Maybe I'm unusual, but I def. didn't want to be with dd for the birth of either of hers, esp. the first - I knew I'd be in a tizz so asked to be told only once it was all over. I knew her very calm and capable dh would be with her .
Though looking back, maybe I'd have urged her removal just downstairs to the obstetric unit instead of the midwife ditto a lot sooner. IMO they kept her there far too long after it must have been obvious that the birth was not going to be straightforward.
Could have saved her a lot of pain and damage, I'm still cross with those midwives who are so evangelical about managing without doctors.
Thank goodness her 2nd was very quick and easy though.
I do have FB but hardly use it. Only joined after dd said she'd be posting baby pics there, but she hardly uses it any more either - it's all Instagram/Whatsapp, and I don't do those either except for receiving Gdc pics.
I think people live their whole lives through social media
If you go out for the day, all you see are parents taking hundreds of photos of their children, and instantly uploading them
I think they are missing out on the pleasure of outings with their children, because they’re too busy posing them for the next photo shoot
And who is it for? For all their friends and family who will think what a fun and amazing time they’re having, what cute delightful children, it’s so fake!
I only use Gransnet and Whatsapp , no time for the rest of it. Times have changed and our children and grandchildren live their lives differently. I agree with Sarah to an extent it does seem that social media has taken over. I resigned myself to the fact that I would miss some parts of my family's life and that of my friends because I choose not to use social media. There do seem to be a lot of jealousies and resentments caused by things which have been posted.
I definitely think SM plays a role, However, I hear it during in-person conversation, too. ("I was at GD's birth and it was so beautiful!"). And one may see one's friends w/ their GC or sees GPs and GC walking down the street together, etc. So I don't think SM causes the issues, but, IMO, it does exacerbate some of them.
As for who is present in the delivery room, I think that's evolved over time. At first, I remember hearing of women who wanted DH in their w/ them to share the experience, etc. Then I heard about some young women wishing they had their DM there. And it just seems to have spiraled. No doubt, SM has had an impact there too.
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