Extremely challenging two year old.

This might be completely off topic but are you checking what the little chap eats? Certain foodstuffs and additives can cause reactions in small children. Not bragging but my children never had tantrums and were fed a wholefood vegetarian diet. Maybe that might give a clue?

I am now having a peaceful few minutes whilst looking after my two year old DGS.. we have just come through and hour of hysterical crying and screaming on his part. He is now happy and smiling and walking around the kitchen dragging a toy and talking to the dog. It all started because he wanted to play in the garden and it is tipping down so hence the terrible two year old arrived. Now he is like a little cherub. I have just turned 70 and love the happy smiling DGS and am glad when mum and dad come to take him home. I have him 2 days a week for 8 hours a time and am just glad I can help. Try not to diss the other GP as they are doing what they can to help. I must be a bad grannie as I have a supply of bears to eat when it gets too much plus Bing can be a life saver if I need the loo or a cuppa. It soon passes, I looked after his sister when she was little and now she has started school I miss her.

Sounds like the 'terrible twos' to me. I do think the parents should set guidelines to be followed by both sets of grandparents though....

Ground rules that everyone who is caring for him stick to so the poor child at some consistent boundaries

Apart from checking with your daughter that yours and her routine with the child are as near as possible alike, there isn't much you can do.

Two year olds do have tantrums and tantrums should be ignored as much as possible. No child bothers with a tantrum if it is clearly not getting him what he wants.

What the other grandmother allows is her and your daughter's business, and your SIL's method of parenting is only his wife's concern, not yours.

Your grandson will soon be old enough to realise that rules and routines vary according to whose house he is in.

What do you actually do, when the boy has a tantrum?

As I said ignoring the tantrum is best - you can't reason with a two year old in a hizzy fit, nor has the child the words to tell you what he is reacting to.

We look after our two year old grandson a couple of days a week. It's absolutely wonderful to be able to do this, but can be challenging at times. Someone on Mumsnet described them as the devils minions!!!! We had a laugh at that one. I think it's important to be as relaxed as possible, within some boundaries. Obviously keeping them safe is paramount here. We always take him out to the countryside when its fine so he can interact with other people, feed the ducks and generally run around. At home we have a mix of the usual activities on offer and allow him to lead with what he wants - for example stickers, crayons, reading books together, bricks, sandpit outside, etc. etc. We still feed him in his high chair. I think you need to focus on what you're doing rather than that the other Granny is doing - unkind and uncalled for I think.

A 2yo can't put into words its feelings- tantrums are often their only way of communicating. This often seems so upsetting to grandparents- try not to take it so personally.

It worries me when I read people saying it is normal for children to have tantrums. Not in my world it isn’t. When my children were that age we did see the odd tantrum with other children in the supermarket but my friends and neighbours children didn’t behave like that. What has happened in the last half century to make this “the norm”?

In my experience 2 year olds are very articulate and perfectly able to express their needs.

I’d like to throw in another idea as the poster shimeld states in a second post that his wife have previously had experience of childminding 3 other grandchildren so they must both be fully aware of ‘normal’ toddler tantrums.
Our lovely 4 year old granddaughter took terrible 2 year old toddler tantrums to a whole new level which is difficult to imagine if you haven’t experienced this first hand . It was exhausting for everyone concerned, especially me when I looked after her. She was at day nursery three days a week and it wasn’t long before the nursery raised concerns over her behaviour although they had lots of coping mechanisms in place as obviously they’ve seen this sort of thing before. They strongly suspect that she is ADHD/autistic spectrum, and said she would need support in school to help her cope with this. She is bright, articulate, funny with a fantastic sense of humour but continues to have tantrums but not as often.
She has just started school and her parents are now going down the difficult route of getting a diagnosis which is not easy with high functioning children.
Perhaps this is something shimeld may want to consider as a possibility and that it has nothing to do with the iPad, TV or sweets?

I’d also like to add that this didn’t come as a complete surprise to us as my son has Asperger Syndrome. He wasnt diagnosed until he was 15 years old and had the most horrendous time for 11 years at school being bullied by both children and teachers as AS wasn’t really recognised 40 years ago, so please don’t anyone say we shouldn’t be putting labels on children as they can be very useful…..

I would, without criticism to anyone, approach the parents and just say that bedtime has become a struggle and is there any sort of routine you can all follow or put in place to help him transition between homes.

All children are different, I have 5, one of which is autistic, and 2 were terrible at bed time.

I never believed in leaving children to cry it out as that leads to unmet needs so I would comfort until calm and put back to bed. The lead up to bedtime was always very quiet and calm.

It's distressing but children get over tired or over stimulated. 2 tear olds have no emotional control and not enough words to communicate the issue so that leads to outbursts.

I really think that the best way to help this little boy to settle is for all his carers to work together to find a solution.

I agree Fabulous50s although the OP has received some useful advice there has been a lot of criticism when he and his wife are doing their best. Not everyone is a super gran/grandad. Sadly, some posters piling on with criticism is becoming a feature of gransnet when people are simply asking for help and advice. Surely this shouldn’t be what gransnet is about?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

When my DGD was sleeping over as a two year old we let her sleep between us because she was scared and didn’t want to sleep alone. Now she is eight she still swings the ‘scared’ lead so my OH sleeps in the spare bed, and she and I have a girly giggle. We did have battles about getting her actually going to sleep but I remember my dear old Dad saying ‘If a child isn’t sleepy they won’t sleep’. So the drill now is that we do puzzles from the stack of old comics we bought for over the years and when she’s ready she snuggles up and sleeps. It doesn’t ‘spoil’ a child to make them feel safe and secure, and I know that when DGD is 16 she’ll not be sharing a bed with me because she can’t sleep!

Esspee it’s always been normal for 2 year olds to have temper tantrums it’s nothing to do with modern living they were certainly well known and much talked about in the 60/70s when I had young children
You go on to say
In my experience 2 year olds are very articulate and perfectly able to express their needs
Youre on another planet if you think a 2 year old can tell you why they are emotionally angry/upset/ frightened emotional awareness and emotional language is really really not happening at 2 and even older

I'm sorry I cant offer any advice. I just think Poor child, he doesn't know where he is , being passed from Grandparent to grandparent must be so disorientating for a two year old. Children need consistency in their care and their lives. No wonder he has tantrums.

If you’re wife’s at breaking point after a couple of bedtime tantrums you really aren’t up to this child minding perhaps offer to pay for him to go to a nursery or a registered child minder.

This is excellent advice. It will provide stability and continuity of routine which toddlers need. It will also free up both you and your wife so that you can go about your work commitments in peace.

I have no 'answers' for you but I would bet he is having these breakdowns because life is demanding more from him than he can cope with. Do not forget EVER that tantrums are frightening and exhausting. No child 'decides' to have a tantrum. He needs regularity of meals, exercise, rest. And for long enough he becomes secure in knowing what will happen day by day. Hope you can figure out some ways to nudge the situation.

So basically you are blaming his bad behaviour on the one day the other grandparents have him?
Have you ever heard of the terrible 2s? It’s called this for a reason
If your daughter isn’t happy with the free care he receives then it is up to her to arrange a suitable alternative

This was also true for my children but my husband and I were their exclusive caters
Sounds like this child is getting a lot of input from different people and it’s confusing him

If you think The Terrible Twos are bad then just wait for The Thunderous Threes.

I agree with others that this child needs consistency, calm and people to look after him who understand his needs and the needs of a toddler, and who do not become stressed.

A good nursery might be the best option.

My 2 year old GS was just leaving nursery and started having a tantrum as he didn't want to hold his mum's hand. The lovely nursery nurse knelt down by him and told him if he held mum's hand he would get 10 points on his chart. Tantrum averted. Maybe the carrot does work .... sometimes.

I agree with the terrible 2's and the tantrums, but I do think if the Grandparent is being affected by what the other Grandparents do I think it is ok to voice it because it has a impact on him and his wife.
I would not offer to pay or contribute to childcare, as it is shockingly expensive and quite frankly I could not afford it.

I collect my Grandson from School once a week, and have done since he was 5 excluding lockdown. I take the attitude of pick your battles wisely, if he wants chocolate what the heck, I buy one for him and me too and I enjoy it. What I will not tolerate is bad manners and disrespect. A bit of cheek is fine, I can tell him off for that immediately. We have had the odd strop, but that is just children for you.
I hope you get this sorted out and the child soon comes out of the terrible 2's.

You say your wife regularly looks after him on Mondays and there are no problems that you know of. But following a tantrum on a Saturday before bedtime and I think another tantrum, she feels she can’t cope. I imagine your daughter must be your informant about what happens at the other grandparents house and about her husband’s attitudes. I feel the women in your family have perhaps turned to you and you now feel responsible and that you should take charge and find a solution. But I don’t think you can really. You can be sympathetic and supportive. You can offer what ever direct care of your grandson yourself you may want or be able to give to help them. But I don’t think you can change or direct all the relationships within the family. And people are likely to get pissed off with you if you try to do that. This was an unusual situation anyway. It doesn’t sound as if he is usually with you on a Saturday or overnight. He is not with the grandparents he is used to. So all that may have upset him. This upset may blow over. Your wife has plenty of experience of raising children. I doubt she will be interested in hearing about strategies for dealing with tantrums. She has to decide herself what she is willing or not willing or able or not able to do. I do so much sympathise with parents with young children working full time and with all the grandparents providing childcare. And for the kids as well at times. It must be difficult for all. Be wary of projecting too much blame on the in laws. It is so easy for us all to do that. Even if they are truly not ideal try to be generous and think the best of them for that will be best for all of you. We all need to complain about our husbands and in laws. Be sympathetic. But don’t take up cudgels. Your daughter may well defend them if you do, especially her husband. You could try asking your wife and daughter what their views are about what could help in this situation or what you could all do. The care of your grandson is certainly primarily your daughter and her husband’s responsibility, however difficult that may be. They must make their own decisions. You can only do what you can do. You can’t make things right for everybody. We all struggle. How could we not? What your grandson mostly needs and what he will remember in later life is to know he was loved. Which I am sure he is. Good luck to you all.