It depends on what you expect from a government. I never expected to get any pension after I had gone to live in Germany and am a German citizen. it was just by chance that I was in the UK for a couple of years and taught German. I had a pay slip and saw that I paid NI. When I asked about it I was advised to ask for a pension forecast. And then I found out that it would be paid in Germany where I live permanently.
I never had the expectation that my home country would keep on paying me a pension. I don't get 100% nor do I get any freebies or winter fuel allowance. The increase is minimal and would not affect a decision to be near my children if my life and happiness depended on it.
The Britsh Pound goes up and down anyway its never worth the same two years running.

Yay!

(my post was of course meant for Goldbeater! )

All you Grans around the UK please read these various articles, the links to which I have supplied below and learn a lot more about this immoral practice from British Governments of both persuasions. It is not just about some people like Rita wanting to migrate to Australia but to many other countries overseas. Some get their pensions indexed, some, a lesser number, don't. That is not the practice of Christian values of fairness and equality of which your PM David Cameron boasts.

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/money/article4104695.ece
www.maturetimes.co.uk/join-fight-end-pension-discrimination/
www.theguardian.com/money/2014/oct/25/floella-benjamin-unjust-state-pension-system-ethnic-minorities#img-1

And visit www.pensionjustice.org there's a lot more on this site to explain why us expats have been up in arms with the UK Governments since at least 1994

If you make the decision to move out of the UK you should be aware of the pros & cons, it is your choice. Those abroad no longer pay UK taxes part of which goes towards pensions etc. It annoyed me that some friends of hours boasted that they still got their winter heating allowance when they were living in St Kits, said they needed it to run the AC.

Stop rubbishing the UK

well said pompa. The danger is that if people keep on campaigning for equality, they will get it......to the lowest level thus depriving those who are resident in countries with reciprocal agreements. For every person who feels they have been treated unfairly, there is another who gains unfairly. Unless you emigrate when just retired and then live to a phenomenal age, then to be honest I dont see that the paltry annual increases are an issue. I would think that the bigger worry is medical and care costs and the funding of them, thus we find there are lots of expats returning from Spain as they need to access NHS as they age. It is always going to be unfair for some, but the system will never be fair to all. The decision is personal.

I do think it seems unfair if looked at at face vaue and was a very small part of our considerations when thinking of moving there.
However it does need looking into more as it must be part of some reciprocal arrangement between governments.

Apart from this issue, as I understand it, Australian pensioners pay no tax at whatever level of income and there is no inheritance tax.

pompa you are right, it is becoming a UK bashing exercise - and DC'S fault even though it has allegedly been going on since 1994.

It is interesting to discuss these things on a forum but yet another to find yourself part of a UK bashing exercise.

It seems to me that these people don't want anything to do with the UK except where it suits them. They don't want live here but want to change our legislation and rubbish the country they no longer live in.
I know from personal experience that many come back to take advantage of our NHS as soon as they see what local care is going to cost them.

pompa you're right in giving it straight from the shoulder. It never ceases to amaze me how people want "everything" - great weather, social support, live near the kids ... the list is long. Not that I don't feel sorry for people who miss their children and grandchildren. But then, some, like a friend of mine, has children in Australia, South Africa and Mexico. So there is no way she could be near her children even if she wanted to be.

Sure this practice re the frozen pensions is unfair and immoral - but so are lots of things. Getting worked up about it isn't going to help. I've got a SIL who goes on and on and on about this particular injustice, and has done for years. It affects my MIL who has lived in South Africa since 1963. She loves the warm weather and hates the cold, and she will live out the end of her days in SA. So she's stuck with a frozen pension, but in the climate of her choice. She just got on with her life. It bothered her daughter a lot more than it bothered her.

You are right, there are many unfair things in life, this is a very minor one, and one that you have control over --- stay in the UK.

Th UK is a wonderful country, if it wasn't why would so many people be trying to get here.

We have IMO great weather (if you don't like it, wait an hour and it will change) a fair society on the whole, very little real povety, buetiful green countryside, great historical towns, the sea within a couple of hours wherever you live, the list is endless.
Ah and a great Rugby team - so far.

Lets hear it for the UK

pompa . Here's more (from a "blow in"): it has - Scotland; closeness to the wonders of Europe; excellent public transport systems; marmalade; wonderful National Trust places - my daughter and I went to the Butterfly House at RHS Wisley a couple of weeks ago, it was like being in the movie Avatar ; Freedom passes (the best present I ever got); there is so much I can do for free in my local neighbourhood I am spoilt for choice; everything works and if it doesn't you can usually find someone to complain to.

Sitting here on a grey February day, with the rain p****g down falling steadily, I can think of one good reason for emigrating GK

Last week I was looking at the difference between sunrise and dawn with my grandson, so he was determined he was going to be awake at dawn to see the three stages of twilight before the sunrise.
It's been cloudy ever since, at that time of day. This morning I was listening to the weather report on the local radio and thinking that whoever or whatever organises the weather does not listen to the weather reports, because she was saying that it was only raining on the coast, and it was definitely raining outside my window.
However, you are right, pompa, because the sun is out now, and hopefully will stay so for an hour.

Sorry, GrannyKnot, but I have to disagree with you about the public transport system. It's not excellent where I live, but as you talk about the Freedom Pass, I assume you live in London, so it probably is there.
Can't afford the train fare to find out.

Pompa

I wonder why you think that it's rubbishing the UK to ask for the pension you have contributed to? And why you think its okay for some pensioners to receive the correct amount but not for others?

I also wonder why you feel it's okay to refer to people who are asking for the pension they were promised as "These People".

Why does wanting your pension somehow indicate that you want 'everything'?

The prime reason for older people moving to Australia is to be near their kids. There is a long waiting list (est. wait ten-fifteen years) and the sacrifice of giving up everything you hold dear and moving twelve thousand miles away is daunting, especially if you are lucky enough to live in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK, as I do. I would do it in a heartbeat to live near my only child and the baby she is expecting, but for the weather? I don't think so!

I wonder where you live that you think there is little real povety (sic) here in the UK. Certainly not in some of the inner city areas I'm familiar with. Believe it or not, they have places like that in Australia too.

So no, Grannyknot, I don't want everything. I want what I paid for and was promised - no more no less. I certainly don't need to be told that, although you feel sorry for people in my position, your SIL has children in lots of places so couldn't live near them all anyway. So that's alright then.

Finally ... its an unfair practice but so are a lot of things? So what, we just let people walk all over each other and never raise our heads above the parapet to say 'hang on a minute, this isn't right' ?

PS Of course Australian pensioners pay tax - they pay according to what they earn, just like everybody else. If I decide to make the move - when I get to the top of the endless waiting list - I will have to pay UK tax on my UK pension for the rest of my life AND on any other UK income, just as though I were still here. So if I did want to come back and avail myself of UK social and medical care I would be fully entitled to do so. Wouldn't I?

Pompa the decision whether to emigrate or not and whether they knew the pros and cons before they left are totally irrelevant; it is the discriminatory frozen pension policy that is wrong, not the pensioner.
All UK citizens wherever they live are assessable for UK tax and many have a UK liability and pay. Frozen pensioners, which is what this article is about do not get Winter Fuel Allowance or any of the other so called "pensioner freebies".

Gill57 - expats living in Spain are not frozen so their health care is covered by the agreement throughout the EU; frozen pensıoners have to cover theır own health care needs. Some pensioners are still in receipt of the same pension they received on retirement - for some about GBP35.00 per week and not the GBP114.00 theır NI contributions qualified them for...the loss of over GBP70.00 per week is not paltry or negligible.

Grannyknot - the frozen pensioner does not want everything; the frozen pensioner is simply seeking parity which means fairness and justice. The cırcumstances of the individual, be they financial, family or otherwıse have no bearing on this issue - merely reflect the consequences of ıt.

This is about the very simple situation where we have a group of individuals who, during their working lives contributed to the NI Scheme on exactly the same terms and conditions as everyone else to quaiıfy for the pension but now, in retirement they are denied the right to withdraw from the NI Fund on the same terms and conditions as everyone else. There is no justification, legally, morally, financially or administratively for this discrimination.

And, just in case anybody is still of the opinion that frozen pensioners want something for nothing do just bear in mind that the savings - yes savings - to the UK economy excluding the frozen pension element is almost GBP 4,000 per retired overseas pensioner per year. In other words the frozen pensioner is subsidising the UK resident.

Without wishing to sound or appear rude I think it would have been beneficial for some of those contributing to this thread to have actually done just a little research on the subject of the article before hitting the keyboard.

well this thread is getting a little nasty and I really thought that your comment goldbeater where pompa had obviously made a typo error was a little small minded. This is getting away from the discussion that was started and was going along well, but the last two posters have made it a bit unpleasant and i dont like all the personal digs at other poster's opinions. I fail to see what this contributes to what was a good healthy discussion about inequalities in reciprocal arrangements.

Non, not getting nasty Gill - this is a frank exchange of views as far as I can see. Nasty is when people get personal about the poster rather than the post. That is forbidden under GN rules.

Unless of course I've missed something, which if you can point that out, I'll take a closer look.

The prime reason for older people moving to Australia is to be near their kids
Yes, I would agree with that Goldbeater
Most older people would go for that reason, not the weather (too hot and sometimes very humid in the summer) or any other reason.
It is a huge consideration as there are so many advantages to living in the UK, not just the pension.

I will have to pay UK tax on my UK pension for the rest of my life AND on any other UK income, just as though I were still here.
We don't pay tax on our UK pensions. Have a look at your tax return to see how it is calculated - the UK pension is taken off your allowance and then the calculations made after that. I don't know anyone whose state pension is more than the personal allowance (someone may correct me of course).

I was informed by Australian relatives that seniors do not pay tax. They may have misinformed me.

I still think it is something to do with the arrangement that came to an end in 2001 - perhaps some countries have a reciprocal arrangement whereas that between the UK and Australian governments has ended.

We have IMO great weather (if you don't like it, wait an hour and it will change
pompa I have been waiting for days for you to send me some
Hurry up, this grey is depressing (only about two shades so far)

What is the Government's reason for freezing pensions?
Because those that left wouldnt for instance be paying VAT on goods here?

But there again, they wouldnt be using the roads and hospitals etc.
But maybe the loss to the Government outweighs their gain, is how they see it?

Not only VAT soontobe They wouldn't be spending any money at all.So therefore not contributing to the economy at all.But the £30 or 35 someone said they were receiving is hardly going to make much difference is it. I have not really been following closely but it there anywhere a statement from HMG as to why there is a difference? Is it just to do with reciprocal agreements?

I have read the arguments pro and against on this thread and I still think the issue in the OP is a wrong that should be righted.
If you have paid in the correct level of contributions over your working life then you should receive the appropriate pension which you have earned wherever you live in the world.

There are many other considerations when thinking of emigrating, but as far as this particular issue is concerned they are meanderings, as these threads do tend to meander. However, there is nothing wrong with meandering. It makes threads more interesting, and this is not a pressure group.

Sorry Anya, I just thought that the thread was breaking into for and against and some posters were getting a little heated, no harm done. For what it is worth, I do think that this lack of reciprocal agreement with certain countries is unfair.