Playing with fire

I've contacted GNHQ to ask if there is something we could do in this area. Fingers crossed.

I think that’s a wonderful idea GracesGran

GillT57

No we don't have a thread GGMk3 so perhaps we should. I have just come out the other side of it so to speak as my Mother has just died. Pm me if you wish. X

Very, Mycat. I don't think there is any way it can't be, as time goes by. We don't have a dedicated thread for those caring for or diagnosed with dementia, do we?

GracesGranMK3

Your mum sounds like mine. It’s a hideous disease isn’t it. Very sad and challenging to deal with.

Good post paddyann and spot on. My mother behaves at times very much like child does (she has dementia). I wonder what we would be saying if she was being "smacked" by a carer or family member.

A child's cognitive skills are being formed and my mother's cognitive skills are disappearing. Both can be "irritating", "unreasonable" and "upsetting" if that is how you chose to see their words and actions. However, if you can understand why someone with dementia should be treated kindly and her limitations understood how can people not understand a child's limitations too and treat them with kindness.

I was only smacked once in my life ,I was goaded into saying a word I shouldn't and goaded into repeating it again and agian so my dad would hear me.He did and he smacked me .
He sat on the bed beside me and cried with me and never lifted a hand to any of us again...the others were never smacked .Years later he admitted he knew his sister has d engineered it because she had been beaten, as had he , as a child and she thought that as I swore once and he hadn't heard me and got punished for it she insisted I keep repeating it until he did.Its not necessary to hit small children to get them to behave .if it wa an adult saying "I ONLY HIT YOU BECAUSE YOU DESERVED IT "We would rightly be horrified.Bullies HIT .Surely we all teach our children not to hit others so why would we think its fine to hit them?

That's what I thought Gabriella

In answer to your question: no, as I said in my earlier post.

The Welsh Assembly will talk about it for years, anyway.

Callistemon
The broader issue of independence.

If, as some of the msm claims, parents may be sent to prison for smacking their children in Wales (does this apply to visitors to Wales as well as Welsh residents?) the prisons may well become even more overcrowded and families broken up, when in fact I thought the aim of modern thinking is to try to keep families together.

If, of course, this is all true.

Was the question in the original post meant to be more about whether Wales may want to seek independence from the UK because they wish to decide some of their own laws or was it meant to be about this specific issue?

iam64

I completely agree with you but it will lead to ‘normal’ parents being reported and investigated and usually cleared but by doing so could cause extreme distress to otherwise excellent parents.

I think a complete ban is totally ineffective anyway as bad parents won’t stop being bad parents and continue to abuse but maybe not so blatantly in public.

That was your experience Mycat, and I don't dispute that. In 40 plus years, I saw some poor safeguarding decisions not just in social work but in all the associated professions including nursing and teaching.

The crux of the matter here though is the question as to whether smacking/hitting children should become illegal. There are arguments for and against that proposal. What is blindingly obvious is that a parent who smacks out once, leaving no hand print, not using an implement, not 'beating' a child is never going to find themselves up before a court. Social workers and Police officers are over loaded with cases of significant abuse in all its horrible forms.

iam64

As a nursing sister and a district nurse for 25 years I had many dealings with SS.

Obviously there are some excellent practise but in my area the whole dept of child safeguarding was found not fit for purpose.

Many dreadful examples.

Unable to assimilate and see things in shades of grey.

Baffling in adults.

Absolutely categorically think that smacking (hitting) anyone, especially if they love you are smaller than you and dependant upon you is wrong. As for the smacking shows you love them brigade, well words fail me. You do realise that is the excuse used by those monsters who beat their partners black and blue? How would any of you feel if I lost my temper and smacked your grandchild if they were being noisy or misbehaving? You would be outraged of course. The only thing different is who is doing the hitting

Sorry that posted on it’s own, never post from a phone. To add - some posters claim all social workers fail, know nothing about child protection. This is not true but who needs research evidence when rants serve the poster better than truth

Fennel, Most of us do our best, parents, nurses, teachers, social workers, police officers. We agree. Some posters claim all social workers fail, know nothing about child ptote

Iam - I hope my posts don't give the impression that I'm blaming social workers. They have a thankless, difficult task and are often blamed when things go wrong.
Nor am I blaming teachers, and most parents do their best.
Another factor in this is that no parent wants to hear that the state can interfere in their child-rearing. Unless they ask for advice themselves.

Thanks TwiceAsNice

All physical punishment teaches children is adults are more powerful. I was smacked a lot by my mother, never by my father) ( who do you think I was closer too?!) and vowed I would never smack my children and never have. All it taught me was it wasn’t safe to ever be angry.

I didn’t emotionally abuse my children either but taught them calm ways to behave and they have grown up as successful adults , my daughter doesn’t smack either, the other doesn’t have children but is very close to her nieces and “parents” them just as well.

You don’t have to repeat patterns you can be different

I try to avoid getting embroiled in personal criticisms but EV your truth has no fleeting resemblance to the truth as I see it.

Maybe because my " rants " are a true reflection of what goes on Trisha and let's face it there aren't many people who like the truth, spoken or otherwise !!

SS are not persecuting anybody. Indeed the horrendous cuts to services make it all the more likely that abuse will slip through the net. The middle class are safe! They can smack their children as much as they like. Social workers have far too big a caseload to deal with them.
Can anybody explain to me how telling parents it is illegal to smack your child will make any child safer? Abuse starts usually with a single smack as a punishment. The physical punishment then gets out of hand as some peope realise they actually enjoy doing it and keep on. Not everyone does this I know but there isn't a single abuse case that didn't start with someone using physical force to discipline a child.

Honestly - rants about social services, teachers and modern parents. How many of you have been out knocking on doors to investigate allegations, how many involved in joint police/social work investigations?
I'm off.