A broken country?

Well said Grandad1943.

grandad you have said what was was trying to say??

My brain a bit knackered.

Did you feel this way before the referendum WWM2?
Change is inevitable and may scare some people. I do think there is an element of looking back through rose tinted glasses.My grandfather was scathing and upset by Harold Wilson and vowed to never vote Labour again, many were upset by Margaret Thatcher’s government etc etc.
The population has grown enormously since then with immigrants from very different countries from ours, with maybe different goals in mind.
We can’t go back, and I’ve always thought it better to look forward in any case.Memory tends to dull the bad things and highlight the good ones.
There really were no ‘good old days’.

Yes, agreement here too that it was the Thatcher years wot done it, the immeasurable damage to the concept of council housing and mantras of the small state and low taxation leading to the expectations of a high level of public services and unwillingness to pay for it.
What is heartening to see is the return of public spiritedness in volunteering, charitable donations - this is a welcome change from the 'why should I' attitude of 20 years ago.

I have no respect at all for politicians now. They squabble like silly school children, and they have made a mockery of our country.

Grandad1943,I agree with every word you said.

Yes, change is inevitable, but it seems some people still seem to think the country can return to the days of the British Empire.

The trick is to manage change as well as possible. What's happening now is that the country is being allowed to jump off a cliff. That's not the kind of change which is a force for good.

In the decades following WW1 things were not perfect, and successive governments had varying attitudes to social problems, but there was a general sense in the air that we were gradually moving forward after almost total disaster, and improving both our position in the world and our social committments. Now we appear to be moving backwards again, and not into the we're-all-in-this-together-but-we-will-get-out-of-it post-war national mood, despite all the "We survived the war" rhetoric from those who didn't live it at the time and don't see the difference.

Grandad Being a member of the EU was part of that transformation.

Whitewave2 I think we have lost our way & it is a broken country, soon to be fragmented further I think. I am not sure what will become of us all.
I also worry about the loss of our common values but maybe those existed only in my imagination.

Polnan, I also saw that programme, and was so irate that they would consider selling them! How anti socialist!

I wonder if there has been a common goal. Not a unilateral one because they never are but hasn't the goal most have backed, to some degree or other, been the Neo-Liberal idea of getting and keeping inflation down.

This seems to have led only to stagnation in wages, a cultural divide and an increase in inequality.

Before Thatcher, our governments (and their voters) generally were a little either side a social-democratic message. Now we have two main parties which each probably only attract 20% of the country because their message is so far from any consensus.

Could we, away from the extremes, have a common goal in investment for growth. Perhaps shades of the USA New Deal in the 1930s. We have areas in which we already lead: technology, process mechanisation and power, particularly green power. This would also have a positive effect on our productivity which is currently going backwards.

Most of this prompted my own views on Social Democracy and by an interview with John Mills about his new pamphlet Left Behind: Why voters deserted social democracy - and how to win them back

What alarms me most is the viciousness of modern political debate, the demonisation of anyone whose views you may disagree with, and the universal unwillingness to consider a different point of view. I can’t see how we can navigate a way through this.

Fiachna it has taken 300 from the union we didn't want ..there were riots on the streets when it was announced...for us to stand up and be counted and try to get OUR country into OUR hands .I am very proud of the tens of thousands who work their socks off every week ,working towards Independence.
We woke up and realised exactly WHAT the "union" is doing to us.We are one of the richest countries in the world yet we have immense poverty ,foodbanks on the rise and the rUK thinks we're scrounging off THEM when in fact...and it is FACT .Its the other way about.England will be bankrupt without Scotlands financial input.Saor Alba !

Fiachna 300 YEARS .that word seems to have disappeared above

.SNP Mp's have never voted on English matters
the rUK thinks we're scrounging off THEM when in fact...and it is FACT .Its the other way about.England will be bankrupt without Scotlands financial input.Saor Alba !

paddyann your first stated fact has been proved wrong, it happened in 2016.
Any chance your second stated fact could also be from the same source?
I have noticed that when challenged you don't seem to come back with any reasoned post. And why oh why do you never mention Wales. Will they be bankrupt too? And will you take pleasure in that as much as England's plight?

Workers worked 5 and a half days a week. Women were 2nd class citizens with unequal pay for the same job, often not able to join pension schemes or get promotion. Men expecting their meal on the table at a certain time each night. Racism (No Jews, no Blacks, no dogs, no Irish). Many Catholics and some Protestants with no vote in NI unless they were property owners.
It was, and still is about power. Imo that wasn't evidence of common goals. It was about the rich and powerful protecting what they'd got - much the same as 2019.

I don't know a single Remainer 'who wanted to go back to Ye Goode Olde Days' - au contraire, lemon, au contraire. And we were/are looking forward to a bright and much future future, cooperating with our European allies. You really don't get this, do you.

Again- immigration you say- from far away and with goals very different to ours - hmmm. Are you talking about EU migrants here, are you sure? You do realise that without our EU, and particularly French, allies - the access to UK borders will be opened for all. They have been working so hard, 24/7 - keeping people away- armed to the teeth, SAS type and with practically no limits to their powers - to keep our borders free. When out with No Deal - this will stop overnight- or rather ... t'other way round.

You can trace it back to Margaret Thatcher's statement "There is no such thing as society." Even she realised how damaging the statement was and tried to backtrack but the damage was done. No one since has dared to speak up and say that it isn't enough to take care of yourself and others matter. But I think things are changing. There are young people who care about others, and the planet, and older socialists who are saying, "we stand together."

The lack of understanding is just staggering.

I agree with Gaunt47
Some peoples will never assimilate and that includes some Anglo Saxons.
I myself have little in common with some sectors of society and likewise they with me.
I have worked alongside but not socialised with various groups as our pastimes, home lives and values often differ.
Integration has been (and always will be) a thorny issue.
Like mostly gravitates to like when there is common ground.

As for 20m more since WW2, yes, I believe those numbers but the UK has not expanded in size. We cannot accomodate every TD or H who decides to come here.
Priti Patel has my vote on the points system.
I'm leaving the politics to those paid to sort the mess out and I'll take my pick of the resultant pieces and make sure my life doesn't suffer more than necessary. My AC and GC will probably do likewise, although their jobs are not in danger.
Most of us are, like it or not, looking out for ourselves amid the mayhem.

As for those who think politics was once nice and cosy how about Churchill's comment to a woman MP (Bessie Bradock or Lady Astor depending on who tells it) who accused him of being disgustingly drunk.
"My dear you are ugly and disgustingly ugly. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly."
Would he get away with that now?

You have the unfortunate knack jura2 of always coming back with a ‘personal’ reply....even when the comment is not aimed at yourself ( or Remainers).
My reply was to the OP about the subject of ‘a broken country’.
The UK has immigrants from many backgrounds both EU and non EU.
I believe the UK may have changed in many ways but still has a bright future.
Society itself has changed in all (or just about all) countries due to technology, things will never be the same, but that’s good ( and normal) in my view.

i think it was Bessie Braddock, it was Lady Astor who said
‘If you were my husband I would poison your tea’ and Churchill’s reply ‘if you were my wife I would drink it ‘

We have seen and continue to see many changes. That has always been the case but now those chabges are ncoming thick abd fast. Most noticeable must be the politicians. They are unable to see forward and just want to stop any progress. In all that it is impossible for us to see what should be done although many of us feel we know.

Perhaps we are undergoing the most volatile change in any peacetime. One thing is sure: we all want this to end asap.