There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

I need to hold these children in my arms, I weep for them.

Nonnie, yes I should have said mothers and fathers,

I am truly saddened beyond words for what these children and their families are going through. I do wonder though, if all the people who get cross and frustrated with a God they don't believe in also take personal action to alleviate the suffering of those who are affected. God or no God - can we honestly say that we've tried to make a difference on a personal level? Until it hurts? Do we volunteer? Do we give our time and skills? Do we give every penny we can afford? Have we offered our spare rooms? Did we offer to foster unaccompanied children who have escaped war? Do we give to foodbanks? Did we march to oppose military intervention?

I know that I could do more, so I'm not going to sit at home and blame God for the world's misfortunes until after I've taken personal blame for my own lack of action.

The thread is not pointless Anniebach we are just confirming what jingl said when she started it.
It is very distressing to hear such a young child, as a parent and grandparent it tears your heart out.

Grannyactivist don't accuse non-believers of blaming god!

Non-believers, I'm one, just believe that there is no god.

God has given humankind free will.

We do not know if it was better for that child to die then, than stay in the situation he was in.

[Young people go to heaven].

Grannyactivist , I think as you do.

I also think how easy it is to blame God, it takes all responsibility away from ourselves, leave us guilt free

jingl. A Bible warning. About not leading people away from God. I think your subject heading and op may do that.
I think you need to be careful in that regard.
It is ok to be het up, but people have to be careful what they do when they are.

Who's blaming god?

Grannyactivist that is truly hurtful. What can I do to help children getting shot in these war zones? How can I stop the wars so the people don't take to the boats? I can't. I've given what I can to the aid charities. I will give some more. What more do you expect of me?

Jingle, if he exists you think we would be living in Eden?

There is no God because children are shot, starved to death etc, but it is man who fires the gun, man who is unwilling to feed the hungry

God has told us how to live, how to treat each other , we choose to ignore

Well let God give me an answer then soontobe. I'm listening.

"Jingle, if he exists you think we would be living in Eden? "

That's plain stupid.

No, it's not enough to say it's all down to mankind. Either God exists and he can enter the minds of man, or he doesn't exist and he can't. And after hearing that this morning, and hearing about the children drowning, I am pretty sure he does not exist.

My issue is not with an imaginary god, but with the belief in an afterlife. Without this silly belief, we might all behave a bit better, knowing this life is all we have. It would be pretty hard to recruit suicide bombers for a start.

I think people are good or bad regardless of religion, and atheists are just as likely to help people and do good works as believers - some would argue more so.

How on earth religious belief persists in the wake of all the horrors perpetuated in the name of deities is beyond me.

Thanks Annie I feel rather like a one woman campaign to change attitudes!

But it would be Eden Jingle. No one would be greedy, have an unkind thought even , drug companies wouldn't want to make millions but would give their drugs freely to heal illness in the third world. This government's foreign secretary would not have said of the refugees in Calais, if we take them in it would lower our standard of living

If you warn your child of the horrors of drug taking but they ignore you are you a bad mother ?

I am with anniebach on this one. you simply cannot say There Is No Loving God.Fact. first of all, because we cannot prove that fact to be either right or wrong.second, that if you believe there is a God but he must remain hidden( if he was there for all to see, it would be a whole different ball game!) then he could not step in to avert any tragedy or disaster.

Nonnie , I often speak out against the assumption that all women are Mother Earth , so you are not alone

Correction: I meant to say 'about a God they don't believe in'.

Riverwalk, I said that 'I'm not going to sit at home and blame God.

jingl - I echo your frustration and sadness, that's why I wrote as I did. I'm sorry you found it hurtful, but I know I can do more and my questions were to those who do little or nothing - and also a challenge to myself.

I'm sure many on GN will already be doing as much as they feel they can, but here are some more ideas:

small ways to help refugees

migrant offshore aid

host a refugee

foster an unaccompanied minor

49 years ago today I stood in a road called Moy Road, I was brought up in that street, went to school in that street, for me it was the safest , most wonderful place in the world until 21st October 1966, I stood with family and friends and waited as fathers , Grandfathers, uncles, brothers, cousins , friends dug out the dead bodies of 144 children from their school ,

It should not have happened, there had been flooding when my father was a pupil in the twenties, when I was a pupil in the forties and fifties, months before the local newspaper printed a photograph of the headmistress handing in a petition warning of the dangers , it was ignored .

My fathers closest friend went to work that morning, in minutes his wife and two sons were dead,his home demolished . At the inquest he demanded the cause of the deaths be entered as killed by the N.C.B, he was ordered to leave the building .

Who did let those children and 28 adults die? And destroy my village, God or man who knew the dangers but did nothing ?

Humans are obviously responsible for Aberfan, Yemen, Syria, modern-day famines, but who was responsible for the earthquake that caused the Boxing Day Tsunami?

For me, the answer would be no-one as it's out of our control, but for those who believe in an all-powerful god, why was it allowed to happen and kill thousands of already impoverished people?

jingle - I am with you on this, and feel for you in a situation where once you believed in a loving god and now no longer feel able to. That is not a comfortable place to be.

God is a human construct to try and explain the conundrums presented by this world. Religious people regard god as being all-powerful and loving. God cannot be both. It is as simple as that.

The forces (some religion-related) that have created this situation are impossible for us to change in any way at all. Offering money and old clothes that we do not want is a pathetic response, and until these forces change then nothing will improve and these children and their families will continue to be bombed and to drown.

I compiled a page of organisations currently involved in helping refugees for my local parish mag, but knew that it was too little and virtually pointless.

Personally I feel ashamed to be a European when I look at the mess our governments are making of tackling this situation.

soon - your post to jingl. "A Bible warning. About not leading people away from God. I think your subject heading and op may do that.
I think you need to be careful in that regard." That is offensive in the extreme - are you telling her she will go to hell? If that is what you mean then shame on you, shame indeed.

So, is this God of yours (*Annieback*) completely powerless? You reckon he made the earth and all that's in it, but can't enter man's minds, and have influence there? What is the point of him then?

Why did he create us? Is it a hobby?

It would be nice if soon could answer my questions too.