Polar Bears seem to be at full capacity in two areas

Bags is not making a point, she is drawing attention to an article upon which she makes no comment.

I have read the article carefully and I can see no illogic. A study has been made of the polar bear population in one area and it has been found that in that area numbers have increased. Reasons for this are discussed and conclusions reached. No comments are made about the global distribution or numbers of polar bears.

Just can't win. If I don't post for ages I'm wrong, if I post a lot in a day I'm wrong; if I post on an old thread I'm wrong........now
Ana is suggesting I challenge and discuss.......

what have I been doing for goodness sake. I'm off on hols tomorrow so ta ta

Have a nice hol Carbon.

The article seems to be saying that polar bears are thriving even though the ice is melting. That Doesn't sound much of an argument to me. Might be ok for the polar bears (for now) but what about the rest of the world?

Oh carbon! I don't think anyone is saying you're wrong to post. It's just that with such a number of prolific postings after such a long time, and the day before you go on holiday, is quite unusual and therefore notable.

Thanks for your explanation of why you've done this now, and pleased to hear you say it was nothing personal, although at times it appeared to me to be so.

I remember following some of your debates with others, and learned quite a bit from the discussions.

I've always valued Bags links and her informed input. Without them I'd be a lot less educated about the why, wherefores, and developmental changes to the environment. Gets me thinking, and I like that.

Well, yes, I meant that you actually stay around for the discussion part, carabon!

Sorry - carbon.

The report is not an argument, it is a factual count of the polar bear population in one area and the results show it has risen. It then looks at the environmental and other conditions in which they live, which are other than expected. No more, no less.

* Carbon* has told us a number of times how desperately worried and fearful she is about the affect of climate change on her grandchildren and I respect that. I made the post I did, not to attack her, but to state the obvious that her approach to these topics was inhibiting discussion rather than aiding it because it was getting bogged down in personal animosities. There is a good discussion to be had on the current range of environmental threads to which Carbon can make a really good contribution if she could just discuss the facts in the articles offered for discussion and other people's comments on them and not personalise them.

Unfortunately she says wants to challenge and discuss topics, which is great, but then doesn't like it when other people challenge her statements.

Of course it's an argument. You are being naive.

Look behind the headline.

The report reviewed in this article is a summary of a bear count, not an argument. The author who reviews the article is somewhat triumphalist in his summary of the conclusions - and his attitude, tipping over from scientific review, into personal opinion illustrates all the problems that Tamsin Edwards discusses in her article and has bedevilled our own discussions over the last few days (see Environmental Thread: The changing climate of climate change research, a thread that has been sadly neglected in the discussions of the last few days). However the results of the survey reported, and others referred to are factual. The conclusions that commentators, not involved in the research, draw from this research are the argument.

Carbon have a restful holiday.

About seven years ago we went to the Arctic: Svalbard. Our boat went north from Svalbard (about 700 miles from the North Pole): we were supposed to be seeing the pack ice. Well, it wasn't there, it just was NOT were it was supposed to be. I know that is only one instance and , to you reading this it is only hearsay, but it did sort of leave an impression on us. Especially as on one afternoon we experienced the second highest temperature ever recorded in the area.
We saw one pathetic looking polar bear looking very thin hanging about in a fiord waiting for ice - and with a long time to go hungry before there would be any chance of catching a seal.

arctic-news.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/diagram-of-doom.html

I know little or nothing about the distribution of polar bears, beyond the fact that they are found in cold places and not at the equator, but I do know that the terrain occupied by mammals and birds can vary considerably from year to year. So that an area burgeoning with a particular species one year can be virtually deserted the next and vice versa.

I suspect one needs to look at global figures of populations rather than figures in any particular area.

Apologies to those who know this, but as we seem to be on the subject of polar bears:

"On a cold rainy night on a Liverpool quayside
In the years before the Great War
The world was in shock at the loss of Titanic
So proud had they been days before.
Relatives gathered for news of their loved ones,
To read through the list of the dead,
When into the throng came a sad-eyed Polar Bear,
And to the clerk at the counter he said…

Have you got any news of the iceberg?
My family were on it you see,
Have you got any news of the iceberg?
They mean the whole world to me.

My wife and children were coming from Greenland
To be by my side in the zoo.
Belinda's my wife and the eldest's called Bernard, and Billy, well, he's only two.
I know on the ship there were hundreds of people,
And I know the iceberg's not yours,
The Polar Bear's eyes held the start of his teardrops
He covered his face with his paws.

It's been over a year since I last saw my children,
I left home to build my career:
I've worked very hard, I'm a star in the circus,
It's all been for nothing I fear.
There's my face on the poster,
We're in town this week.
My Children were meeting me here.

Everyone watched as he struggled to speak.
By now all the people had gathered beside him,
His grief was one they could share,
The people around him in silence and sadness,
Listened to the sad Polar Bear.
I wanted my children to see me performing,
And Belinda, she would have been proud.
At last, lost for words and his tears flowing freely,
The question was asked by the crowd.

Have you got any news of the iceberg?
My family were on it you see:
Have you got any news of the iceberg?
They mean the whole world to me."

That poem is just bullshit emotional propaganda.

Here's the latest summary of the state of polar bear populations.

Ouch! That is harsh. I thought it a harmless and rather sweet poem about another side to a well known story. Didn't expect both barrels.

Lets have David Attenborough to referee.

Sel

SEL

... and we all know what David Attenborough thinks......

But yes, it was a bit harsh, gracesmum!

"Referee"???? This is reminiscent of the playground cry of "Fight, fight"
Not going there.

It was a harmless remark said in fun , IMO !!!!

As was my post /poem - and look what happened to that[ smile] Both barrels!!

Can't even get right today - back under the duvet.