cut out of thier lives 2

celeb there would have been a safeguarding meeting with health, education, probation/police and the grandparents would have been able to attend any part of it that wasn't confidential e.g. discussion about police or probation management of a man (the children's father) who has used a knife to threaten social workers. A risk assessment to gauge who would be at risk in what circumstances would determine the protection of the children, hence the placement with a foster carer where the children's father couldn't find them whilst there remained a risk to safety - people in authority appear to be at risk from him i.e. teachers, social workers, family GP if they needed to visit. Children could be caught in the crossfire if he turned up with a knife trying to find them, or with a grievance to express.

If the grandparents could have been ghosted away somewhere where they were anonymous and could protect the children in such risky circumstances, all well and good, but grandfather chose to appear on a TV talent show, and this would make him easier to track down.

Sounds like both grandparents and impolite social workers could have tried harder for these children, according to what was reported in the article, but they seem to be safe with a foster carer in the interim.

I've just read the article, and sympathise with everyone involved. One point I feel needs correcting, is the article refers to the grandparents Care Plan. It's the child's care plan. An individual care plan is put before the Court by the social work team, for every child in a family where a Care Order is being requested. The care plan sets out the plans for the child, including contact arrangements, education, health etc. That plan will be the subject of discussions between all the parties, at court, including parents, grandparents, the social workers and the Children's Guardian. The role of the Children's Guardian is to keep the focus on the identified needs of the children, and remain independent of the social work team.

I don't know enough about the circumstances of the children referred to in the article to understand how decisions have been reached. The cases that end up before the courts tend to be complex, and very sad for everyone involved.

Very sad story but I guess the ultimate fear of every social worker is that an unbalanced man will find his children, take them away and kill them, sometimes killing himself as well. This happens several times every year. I would not want their job. Not sure what is achieved by having stories in the press.

Maybe they safe whenim but what a price and surely their grandparents could have been given more access? 2 frightened children take. To live with strangers losing their parents and grandparents, it is appalling.mismanage ment.

The child's father was happy,for grandparents to have them and I don't believe he ever threatened children? So sad. North. Norfolk social services don't seem to get a good press. I understand he threatened social worker and realise this would be a worry and don't get me wrong never excuse for violence however I also understand there seems to have been a lot of provocation.

I do hope these grandparents get treated with more tolerance at the hearing on January 17 and full marks to them for perserverance.

I don't think the motive behind the child's father being happy for grandparents to have the children is entirely clear, celeb. Yes, he could be just wanting them to be with family, but it does sound like both he and grandfather aren't cooperating with social services and the children shouldn't be exposed to any threats, even if they aren't directed at the children. They could get caught up in something nasty. It's horrible to watch adults warring and not heeding the fear this will inflict on children who witness it. I have every sympathy for parents who become so distraught about separation from their children that they act irrationally - they then have to demonstrate over time that they can cool it for the sake of their children, once the risk to safety has been shown to be an important factor. Very sad for all concerned.

Hello Girls
I was very touch by your sad posts Librachick and Marelli and I will have a look and no-doubt purchase those two books mentioned and read the Daily Mail article. Sorry to hear you've had a really bad day Smileless hope your feeling better this afternoon and good luck tomorrow with your heart scan Celebgran, the scan will probably show a picture of your beloved GD's imprinted there!
I had a good day yesterday, took my first class of the New Year, which was lovely and then a couple of my friends came to me for lunch, where we had a bit of a laugh and soul search about our sad stories, one of my friends is the one who's husband suddenly said he didn't love her any more and is not only leaving her but putting their house up for sale too! so she'll have no where to live! So she's really hurting too.
Saturday I took all my Xmas deco down and I also printed off all these posts, a copy for me a copy for Laila and Jack, so that when their older, they will read what I and other GM have been put through, a whole years worth, from the first time I posted up to New years days post. I wont print any more, as that would be too overwhelming, but if I was Laila and Jack I would be very interested in reading what went on behind their backs, after all I am Laila's only real nannie in all this and Jack's maternal nannie.
God knows when I will get to see them, I now think I wont. My friends keep saying "Something will happen, you'll see them soon" but I'm now trying to get my head round the fact that I wont, not until they are grown and can decide for themselves, but then I will be a total stranger, the special bond between us all gone! Feeling ill today, maybe the 'let-down' from Christmas and NY all packed away for another year.
I have also got my head around the fact that although my D wouldn't have done this on her own without her husband and m.i.l pushing her to do it, it is still down to her. So I have to face the fact that she doesn't love me, doesn't even like me in fact dislikes me, if she thought otherwise I wouldn't be on here writing this, would I. She did cut herself off from her dad for three years and only made up with him when I was cut out. But he left us when she was 3yrs old and never had much to do with her or her brother and sister thereafter, so I could understand it, and she cut him out when she first fell pregnant with our Laila as he said some unkind and supportive words.

I have noticed that sometimes posters name their grandchildren on here, don't forget that this forum is a public forum and can be read by anyone members or not.

Evening every one. Glad you class went well yesterday Yogagirl, sounds like you're getting back in to the swing of things. Thank you for asking, yes I've had a better day today . Went to the gym but didn't get my usual trainer had the owner and what a task master he is. Thought he was trying to finish me off . Now had that happened yesterday when I was having a bad day I may be wouldn't have minded too much. Managed to get through, but only just. He told me by the end of the year I'd be cover girl material. I told him I thought he was a personal trainer, not a miracle worker .

So sorry about your friend, hope she's holding up OK. It must be awful for her. Don't like the sound of her estranged hubby dictating to her what he's going to do with their house. If she hasn't done so already, she ought to get some legal advice and find out exactly where she stands.

What a brilliant idea printing off a years' worth of posts. Like you say when your gchildren are older they'll be able to read about not just what their gran went through but so many others as well. Will give that some thought.

It's so hard coming to terms with the fact that our own children are a party to what's going on. I don't think our s would have done any of this if he hadn't married her or some one just like her and it frightens me just how many 'like hers' there are out there.

It isn't you Yogagirl it's them and the people they marry and in some cases, like yours, the families they marry in to.

for you and every one who is in pain.

Good luck for tomorrow Celebgran hope it goes OK and every thing IS OK. Will keep everything crossed for you which should make tomorrows boot camp class very entertaining!!

Sleep well every one I'm including my self in that. Went to bed at midnight and woke up at 4.50am and couldn't get back to sleep!!

Our gs 2nd bday today. Posted our card through their letter box this morning, my bro posted his and my mum's through last night. Just had 'phone call from my bro to say both cards have just been put back through their letter box by our d.i.l. He recognised her voice but wasn't in time to see her before she left. Their card had been opened (they obviously hadn't recognised his hand writing) and ours of course had not.

No worries, the returned cards will go into our gs's memory box and one day he will be able see them. At least no abusive and threatening notes this time although very sad that a virtually house bound great grandmother's bday card to her only great grandchild cannot be accepted.

We will not be deterred. They have stopped us from having any contact with our gs, but they'll never stop us sending bday and Christmas cards for as long as we know where he lives. I don't care what they do with them, what's important to me is that we care enough about him to keep on sending them. I just hope one day in the future, how ever far ahead it may be, that one day the fact we wouldn't give up will mean some thing to our gs too.

it beggars belief how nasty and vindictive your dil is smiles....thinking of you and sending you hugs xxxxxx

Yogagirl, thank you for your comments. What a good idea printing off these posts, I might do that and put a copy for DD a copy for GC, so that when their older, they will read what I and other GM have been put through. Be too late for me then.

Celebgran hope everything went ok with your scan.

Smileless, sorry to hear about your GS birthday cards being posted back through the letter box, do these selfish kids know how we feel? Do they even care?

Our 3 GC already have a memory box each, but will now need a Christmas sack for the presents. Like your GS, they will get their cards/presents to.

I have just come home from work, and OH told me he went to pick the GC’s Christmas presents from me ex (DD’s father), DD refused to take them for the GC (first year every). My ex told OH, I need to take the softly softly approach? I can’t even do that. So that was me in tears yet again coming home from work. I feel so empty, don’t know how I have even functioned the past two days at work, with no sleep on Sunday and only from 04:10 to 06:45 this morning.

I want to call her up and scream, shout and lash out (like Sally Fields did on Steel Magnolias, when Olivia Dukasis gave her Shirley Maclaine to hit) ask her what she is trying to achieve? She is hurting the people who love her the most, parents and children.

Yes Dollie they are nasty, vindictive and selfish and, and, and and more ands . This world is a very sad place sometimes.

Just learnt how to do bold and

Thank you dollie for the hugs and kisses for you. Yes my d.i.l. is very nasty and vindictive and I'm afraid so is my s. Not enough for them to simply throw the cards away, they had to return them so we knew our little gs didn't receive them . That's what really annoys me, they are depriving a little 2 year old of cards from his gparents, great gran and great uncle. Using a little 2 year old to inflict pain and suffering on others. Our s has spent the last 18 months lying about us and portraying us as bad people while simultaneously using his only child as a weapon

Must admit I was more than a little amused that she put our card through my mum's letter box bec. she clearly didn't have the courage of her convictions to come to our house. Funny isn't it when they both have soooo much to say about us behind our backs .

I love that film LibraChick especially that scene, I have fantasies too and that's been one of my milder ones I have no doubt whatsoever that my s knows how we feel which is why he does these things, or as it would now seem gets his wife to do it for him.

Their best friends as I've said before live next door to my mum and bro. My bro knew she'd returned the cards bec. he heard her friend call out in a very loud voice "I'll bring ...... bday present down later ......". They behave like children, the trouble is their not and bec. of that they can cause far more harm and damage.

I really feel for you LibraChick you are doing so well . It must make it even more difficult knowing that your D sees her father and wont have anything to do with you (I hope I've got that right) . And just for good measure you're getting the 'we don't want our children to have their Christmas presents from you bec. we don't like you any more' treatment [angy]. Well one day, like our gs, your gc will get all the things you've lovingly bought for them and then they'll be asking why they hadn't been allowed to have them before.

When my hubby asked our s why he wouldn't let us see our gs after promising us on 3 sep. occasions that he'd never do that, he replied with "things change". Well yes all you horrible, nasty, selfish, cruel and vindictive children things do change, and you may be surprised what those changes will be when your children, our gchildren grow up and want to know why you wouldn't let them see us their gparents; why you deprived them of our love and why you took from them and from us all those precious years that can never ever be replaced.

Sorry for the rant and long post ladies.

Hope the scan went well Celebgran and all is well. I bet they found a huge heart in there full to the brim with love

Oh smileless how very cruel and petty of your d I law do you think your son is aware what she is doing ?or maybe that is stupid question.

Big hugs so very sad. God knows what happens to our cards and presents guess we being 40 miles away our nasty daughter could not be bothered to return them.
I will do memory box for Mollie our oldest. I already do an online blog for her. She is only one we were allowed to fall in love with for 9 months.

At moment have drawer we keep stuff in copies of letters we send etc.

We try send postcard from all our holidays. Anything to just keep door open.

Thanks yogagirl smileless and libra chick scan went ok bit ordeal did not realise would need strip off totally upper half was not offered gown no modesty ! Was uncomfy as took about 40 minutes nice lady though. She would no say much as will see consultant on 29th, glad it over !

Did not sleep well last night.
Swam about 18 lengths as no acquacise going crash out now !

Smileless keep strong and chin up.

Libra chick think of your own health try relaxation music hot baths with some Lavendar oil in anything to try relax, you must get some proper rest you will be ill.

PS took me a while to work out why my second didn't work, then I realised I'd missed out the 'r'

Thanks Celebgran I'm glad it went OK but sorry it was a bit of an ordeal. Our posts must have crossed. Hope you sleep better tonight.

Feel more human just had hot relaxing bath lots Lavendar oil in it classical playing Now going chill In front tv.

Thanks smileless it was bit uncomfy with scanner poking all round left breast! For so long ! Amazing tech stuff nowadays vastly different from when took my estranged daughter for one about 9 years ago.

Hope results ok ! Only 3 weeks to wait.

Hope you not feeling too down [cake]

Just off for slice fresh cream sponge!

I am so sorry to read of all the troubles people have with their children and grandchildren. I thought it was only me who had all these problems. The first time I thought it was the partner of my elder child. He was a piece of work. He was not only hitting my daughter and the children, he also tried hitting me! I am still shocked about how my daughter told me not to hit him! I would have loved to make mince out of him but I am better than that. It was all about comtrol. He would dictate when I could or could not see the children and my daughter He was eventually convicted of hitting the children. Time went by and the daughter eventually met another man and after the birth of their first child it all started again. No violence so far this time but definite controlling behaviour over when I could see that child. My daughter's older children have lived with another relative for years. When any coment is made about being able to see the children this partner claims to have said take them to your mother. Then my other child had a baby and again the partner was abusive. There were comments about threats of violence to me. I was thought to be so bad when I said the partner is not to come to my house or anywhere near me. So I did not get to see that child after it left my house to live in a homeless place! Now another child has been born and yet again I am expected to provide but not to be treated properly as a grandparent.
I am pig sick of it all and I never ask to see any children. I never invite anyone to my house. I am older now but still have a fighting spirit. I have copies of all the attempts I made to get help to my first grandchildren and maybe the younger ones should also have a copy to prove how I was willing to be an average grandparent but I was "held to ransom" over my grandchildren.

Hello Girls
Just read all the post, now need to remember them all!
Well done Celebgran on having your scan, anything like that is not nice, hopefully it will all come back clear and just down to all the stress you've had over the years. Enjoy your cream cake
Thank you Smileless, such a horrid situation for you, with the cards being sent back with such hate, as you say, when our little ones are grown and know they have been deprived of all our love, they will not be happy at all, especially my little Laila being surrounded by non-relatives. Well done on going to the gym every day and I'll look out for you in the mags next year
Oh dear Librachick its so hard isn't it. I never slept either till I got some 'Kalms night' they do help after about a week and once you get some sleep you will feel a lot better. I never in a million years thought I would be taking tabs to help me sleep and lift my sad mood, but I was in such a black hole of despair and needed to get out the other side. My spare room now has two big sacks each of presents for my GC and now one for my S and one for my prev. in-laws that I didn't see over the Xmas hols for the first time
I read that DM article, it was so sad, so wrong, how could SS think that could be in the best interests of the children! I purchased the 'invisible grandparent' first time I've every downloaded onto tablet to read, its good, but reading that before going to bed may not be a good idea, as I had a real bad not, tossing and turning, thinking about my beloved GC and wondering if I will every see them again I also put aside the other book mentioned along with another called 'Healing from family rifts' by Joshua coleman' and also purchased 'Family estrangements' by Barbara Leby which looks really good, she was a Lawyer and now a Judge, estranged from her S and never seen her GC, she said "If you think you're beat, you are" The other book was 'When parents hurt' was that the other one mentioned on here? sorry if it is, I've just got them jotted down roughly on a piece of paper here.

Hello ladies. What a terrible time you've had Sugapuffairy . I don't know what's worse, being held to ransom over ones gchildren or simply being cut out of their lives altogether. You've had to experience both and managed to retain your fighting spirit to toast you with.

We're pig sick of our situation now and are hoping that 2014 will be the year we learn to let go. It's been just over two years as we were having problems before our gs was born; small things but now we know what we know, the writing was on the wall. I know there are ladies on here who have been dealing with this for much longer but I just feel if I keep hanging on, desperately waiting for things to change, it will eventually drag me down . All we can do is wait, hope and pray that one day our s will regret what he has done, and want us back in his life. Until then we must try to get the most out of what we still have.

Sorry you didn't have a good nights' sleep Yogagirl. I think you're probably right and should find some thing else to read before you go to bed, but it's good to know your 'Kalms night' are helping. They're only herbal Librachick and might be worth giving a try. Our situations are so very hard to deal with and when you're not getting enough sleep it becomes even harder. I must get more organised Yogagirl like you are, and get some of these book ordered.

Hope you enjoyed your cream cake Celebgran, you certainly earned it yesterday. I'll work extra hard at the gym on Friday for both of us .

Have a good evening every one . Hope Yogagirl and Librachick have a better nights' sleep.

good for you smileless in trying to move on....we have to or it will just eat us up and thats no way to end the rest of our days...

Well celeb and you lovely grandma's. OH off to "click click" aka photography group. I'm in bath, lavender and sandalwood oils, radox, couldn't pick one, so capful of each (stress relief, muscle therapy, sleep easy & relax). Music, on repeat - Nana Mouskiouri, the white rose blooms again, then Jeff Beck, hi ho silver lining, Sandy Posey, all I have to do is dream, JJ, price tag & Christmas Carol, the cat and the mouse. Best I've felt in 3 weeks. Hoping to sleep tonight.

I hop you GM's are okay, lots of hugs if you need them, smiles you are marvellous. Glad I found this thread, now know I'm not the only one, which in itself is sad.

LC

Thanks all grandma's. After meeting I had to minute, went to buy St Johns Wort & night Kalms. You are ALL an inspiration.

Be careful with at johns wort if you have high blood pressure (I :do}

I prefer quiet life to try calm me!

Glad bath and music helped!

I have busy day tomorrow 2 clients off Caribbean so pedicures and manicure going acquacise first too !

So hard libra chick been5 years for us and 2 births so bed awful but sometimes I manage to rise above it and we have had good times, the sometimes I just can't bear it or believe it has happened !

Is great to have support on here it makes all the difference.

Hope smileless and yogagirl had good day.
I snorted out mynstuffmfor tomorrow's treatments.
Slight problem one lady (saw her at club meeting thus afternoon] could see her nails painted gelac apparently it do not do that and will not be able to remove it needs special solvent oh dear have told her. Watch this space !
Happy evening all x
,

st johns wort can interact with prescribed medicines to....not sure about taking them as well as kalms....i do think personally a lot of these so called health supplements have the placebo effect....

I use St John's Wort, and find it works well for me. It's not a case of a placebo effect, either, as I take it in the morning and then never give it another thought (ie. "this must be doing me good and making me feel better").
It's very important to check with your pharmacist though, before taking it, as I believe some medications for stomach problems or for epilepsy (I think ?) can interact badly.