cut out of thier lives 2

Hello ladies. Do hope you had a better nights' sleep LibraChick, it certainly wouldn't have been for the lack of effort on your part if you didn't. Great choice of music by the way. This is a wonderful thread isn't it . I was looking back the other day and I first came on on October 25th, so only just over two months ago and yet I feel as if I've been coming on here for ages. Don't know how I'd have coped with out it; I'm so pleased that you're finding it helpful too

A quiet life Celebgran I'm pretty certain that in my distant past I used to have one of those! Finding the ads for life insurance 'to cover funeral expenses' nearly as depressing as the ads leading up to Christmas. All those 'gparents' enjoying their 'gchildren'. Can't help thinking that that should have been us; all of us .

Had to look the other way driving in to our village again this morning so I wouldn't see my gs with the childminder; they don't show things like that on these adverts do they. Still, when you s or d treats you so badly, you don't really care if they get saddled with a bill for your funeral expenses or not.

Have a pleasant evening every one.

Morning all, had 3 hours sleep already, so might try and get another couple before time to get up for work.

smileless that must be really hard to see your GS and you can't stop and say hello and have hugs. I joined this site a while ago, never really used it except to read things. I only found this thread mid December and read all these posts. It's definately been my lifeline this past 3/4 weeks.

Sleep eventually came and felt like a million dollars yesterday with the effects of it, sleep deprivation on top of all this is not a good combination!

Celebgran I used to have a calm life, chaotic when the GC came over at weekend! but would have that any day.

Dollie placebo effect ? Maybe you feel that is the case for you, but I've been taking Evening Primrose for over 10 years and have stopped them a couple of times and I know they work for me. So IMHO, I don't think they have a placebo effect on me. So hopefully the STW & Night Kalms will do, know the latter have worked.

re the SJW I read the pamphlet that came with them, but had to buy before could break seal to read it mind you!! I don't take any medication, so I'm ok. Night Kalms got me to sleep last night, with the help of the bath etc and tonight, so happy to continue taking them.

Tonight after work, off to Waitrose to get something nice for dinner, bath, music to sing to very loudly (can't sing for toffee), as hubby not home until 19:15'ish, with a nice cold glass of . Then dinner when OH is back, then a nice quiet night cuddling up watching a movie. Maybe "bare feet in the park" love that movie.

So passes a lovely bunch of to all of you lovely grandma's /ladies we all deserve a lot better than what our vindictive offspring throw at us. Have a great day today TGIF I say [smiles]

Placebo effect is not possible with herbal tablets like quiet life, kalms etc they contain hops and other herbal ingredients to induce drowsiness and calmness!

St. John's wort must be careful of like myself have high blood pressure

Very busy day yesterday 2 pedicures and manicure went very well and good tips from lovely clients.

Today a regular lady for manicure just been line dancing, the walked Rosie !
Tire now!

Oh cooked lovely steak meal for us last night today we off to Toby for no cooking treat!

Libra chick could not put it better myself no one deserves the vindictive stuff the grans on this thread have had to cope with.
Happy Friday all hope smileless still going gymn?
Forgot say did good workout at acquacise before. My clients yesterday.

Yogagirl hope you having happy Friday.
My precious son turns 36 tomorrow.
Card voucher duly posted! Grrrrr oh working so can't see them next sat but got feb date booked, his lovely partner lifts our spirits so much.

What do you mean that the placebo effect is not possible celebgran ?

of course these herbal remedies can be a placebo effect ....the placebo effect happens when a person takes a medication that he or she perceives will help.... although it actually has no proven therapeutic effect for his or her particular condition...they may be pharmacologically inert... meaning that they contain no active ingredients....medications that do have active ingredients but aren't proven to work on the patient's particular condition can also be placebos....

Celebgran every time you find something that helps you you will find someone to shout placebo...

Every remedy that works well for you personally could be having a placebo effect, if you truly believe it will, from sugar-water to pearls ground up in alcohol, from St John's Wort to the most expensive drugs.

The only way to distinguish between what really works and what seems to work is by giving people randomly selected courses of the remedy and of something that appears exactly like it, but contains no active ingredients at all, and not letting even those who are administering the doses know who gets what - a double blind trial.

That is true for herbs and "natural" remedies as well as sophisticated drugs.

and the ones that do aka are the ones who have tried said herbal remedies that havent worked for them....

Dollie ? Re read my post. Have you defined meaning of,placebo?

It simply means believing something's helped you when I could have been just absolutely nothing. When something has ingredients herbal or otherwise which will have some affect on the metabolism then this is not placebo.

Believing medication works is often half the battle.

believing it has surely is a placebo effect? just because something has ingredients herbal or otherwise doesnt prove it will have some affect on the metabolism....as i said earlier kalms and st johns wort do not make any difference to me when ive taken them...

Yes, Celeb but I don't agree with you when you say that "placebo is not possible with herbal tablets quiet life, kalms etc they contain hops and other herbal ingredients . ." There can still be a placebo effect, and as you say "Believing medication works is often half the battle."

Placebo is Latin means I shall please and is used to describe when someone is deceived Into thinking they have taken medication which is something totally neutral they can believe it helped them ie placebo affect. Sorry those things not helped you Dollie we all react differently.

Elegran see other post whole definition of placebo is if you believe so etching helped which had nothing in it ie any ingredients

Sorry drone on comes of being pharmacists wife guess

ooooo we have diggressed havent we.. lol...

hope everyone is keeping strong..

Smileless and yogagirl how are you both .?

We showed letter and inserted photos to our dear neighbour and it made her cry! Wonder what effect if any will have on our daughter.

Thank goodness slept bit better last 2 nights.

My dear son 36 today omg thank god every day we have him and his lovely family.

Libra chick hope you still sleeping bit better.
Whatever life throw at us so important to try still enjoy it and keep positive but we all allowed wobbles at times!

Happy weekend to us all we quiet for change but my sore throat keeps coming back have had busy week.
Enjoyed amazing Toby last night but managed put on 2lb!! Did no have pudding and loads veg grrrrrrr

Celebgran, Yogagirl, Smileless and all other grandma’s, hope you’re all well and looking forward to a nice weekend.

Well I had a great nights sleep, with my night Kalms, which is not a Placebo on my front . Received one of the books yesterday which I ordered from Amazon Invisible Grandparenting, just waiting on my American rubbish coming . I will use whatever I think will help me in anyway I can get.

Weekends are my worst time, I would normally have the 3 GC over the weekend at some point. OH works on a Saturday, so I fret and worry a lot. However, NOT going to do that today. Plans are watch Coro omnibus having tea and toast with vegemite, then clean the house from top to bottom with music VERY loud, because I can . Then sit down and start reading Invisible Grandparenting later today, before going out tonight to friends for dinner.

Celebgran happy birthday to you dear son, so glad you have another child that is good to you. Wish I had more than one child now. Glad you had a good workout at acquacise yesterday.

Marelli, glad SJW works for you, I have been taking it, not sure if it’s the good sleep I’m having or if it’s, finding this group and talking/ranting or the SJW, but definitely feeling better. I don’t take any prescription medicines, so should be okay, not pregnant either .

Yogagirl, yes it is hard. I’m glad Night Kalms worked for you too. I never thought I’d be taking something to help me sleep either, I never ever thought I would be going through this either, my D and I used to be very close. But she see’s her Dad, which really hurts me (he was there when D was having this awful upbringing, but she said it has nothing to do with him and told him to keep out of it, but he was there and could discuss this with D)!!

My spare room now has their Christmas presents from this year, first time I’ve never had the GC’s over. Last time I saw the 2 GS was when we took them to the Eddie Stobart event in Carlise, not seen GD since around August last year. Not even allowed to speak to them on phone, they only live 8 miles away . We had a bedroom for them to sleep in and another bedroom was a playroom, with lots of toys. We have now made them into one room and getting rid of a single trundle bed and just keeping the bunks.

Sugarpuff, sorry to hear your story, same here, I thought it was only me, until I came onto this thread. Then finding out there were books on the subject, really gobsmacked. I too am pig sick of it all, the fact that I’ve had the GC so many times over the last 9 years from being babies and I’m talking full weekends, full weeks (taking annual leave), so that D & SIL could have a break. Not just the odd hour .

I don’t understand why we've been denied contact with the GC, totally confused. I have gone over D’s childhood, where was the terrible upbringing, what did I do wrong? Why is D punishing me, not her Dad, who was there all of her life also, but he is perfect. We didn’t split until she was early 20’s. I am still trying to work out what my crime was. I feel like a failure, I keep asking myself “where did I go wrong”?

The grief is unbearable. After only 2 months of being told no contact, I am at a loss. There is no closure to my grief. Every day is a struggle, and I can only hope my D’s children do not do this to her. The sudden loss after so many years with grandchildren is devastating. I know there are two sides to every story, but truly I am at a complete loss to where I went wrong.

I know I need to focus on my own life, but it’s really hard. We go somewhere and I say to OH, remember when xx did this here, or xx did this. I’m my own worst enemy, but can’t stop the thoughts going through my head.

I read somewhere / some site, “if after an honest evaluation, and you still believe you were not at fault, apologise anyway and hope for the best” !!

Sorry for another rant

for everyone. Off to make a and get off line.

your crime librachick in your daughters eyes that is...is the fact you split up from her dad and she blames you for the break up.....its the same with my younger daughter ( i split from my husband when she was younger after a year i got back with my husband but thats another story) she tells everyone she had a terrible childhood and that i treated her father terribly right up to his death....she even posted on a public forum for everyone to see how evil i was!!!!! it felt like id been stabbed through my heart!

Dollie I don't believe it's that. She knew he was having an affair behind my back. She was in her 20's when we split up and she'd left home. Her dad and I get on very well, always have (after about 18 months). We have even spent Christmas's away with the whole family and her Dad, there is no animosity with him and I.

Everything between D and I was great until 26.06.11. When SIL phoned us to come over as she was pissed, and when I got there she beat me up after asking D why she was drinking if she was taking antidepressants.

Things got better for a while, but then in November 2013 she told my OH that she had a terrible upbringing and I needed to go to counselling and then she would come and tell me and counsellor what a terrible upbringing she had, and until then I would not have any contact with her or the GC again. A friend asked if she was going to counselling, when I confirmed D was, she said this happens sometimes, things get distorted and taken out of context.

Strange libra my daughter stabbed me right through heart bye saying I ruined her childhood with my manic depression which can't have been true I was only depressed once and carried on as normal she was not even old enough to be aware I still had her friends to stay etc. I worked so very hear to do my best for her and I just want her to tell me where I went wrong or do I?

I have so many cards letters telling me how much she loved me and how proud she was of me so it does not add up. Now she asks her dad am I still in denial and how awful for him to have to live with me!!!

So very hard ton cope with impossible to make sense of, there seems a pattern on here for daughters to turn on loving mums don't you think?

Just spoken to my lovely son he makes life worthwhile for us.

do you know thats made me think libra..my daughter had counselling to...how can things get distorted and taken out of context to that extent i thought counselling was suppose to help!

Celeb, my husband just keeps saying “mothers and daughters” - I too have so many cards, letters, notes, photos, collage of photos she did for a mother’s day (only photos of us both in it), all saying how much she loves me, so proud of me, I was a cool Mum, I gave her the right amount of discipline, if she had been asked to pick a Mum she would have picked me, etc etc. and the latest one was Mothers day 2011 before she beat me up. I too worked very hard to do my best, she had a very privileged life, not that money makes happiness, she had lots and lots of love from me, and I still love her to infinity and back (but hate her at times for the way she is treating me).

You’re lucky that you have a wonderful Son who loves you and is in your life, it does make things worthwhile. Does your D & S talk?

I too would like my D to tell me where I went wrong, but she’ll only do that if I go to counselling???

Dollie, I thought counselling was supposed to help too, but not in my D’s case, she seems to have gone do-a-la-lay (don’t know if that’s how you spell this, but that’s the least of my worries, hee hee).

Sadly libra my son will not contact his sister due to her despicable treatment of us his words.

Evening ladies. Goodness, all this talk about the placebo effect. Personally, I don't think it matters what people take, providing it's legal and as long as all the blurb is read regarding other medication, possible side affects etc. If it works, it works; if it helps, it helps.

I started taking Kalms due to stress and found that after taking them for a week or so, there was a dramatic affect on my psoriarsis - probably incorrect spelling - but it's a dry skin problem caused by stress. Any way the Kalms did more than the creams, lotions and potions prescribed by my doctor ever did .

Oh LibraChick it must be awful having had so much contact with your gc to not be able to see them at all. I suppose not having seen our gs since he was 8 months old, and never having had a lot of contact so never really knowing him, does make it a little easier .

Not just 'mothers and daughters' I'm afraid as in our case it's our son.

It really is quite amasing how many things our tragic circumstances all have in common. We found out very recently from our lovely s that his bro has issues that go way back, in to his childhood, before he ever met his wife.

We are extremely close, I mean really, really close and this is the first I've heard. How convenient though, in case we believe that every thing was OK until our d.i.l. came on the scene. Perish the thought that we could ever see a link between their relationship and what has happened to our once happy - not perfect by any means - but happy, 'normal' little family!!

I'm with you Dollie and thought that counselling was supposed to help but you do hear about false memories being a problem. From what we do know our s seems to have allowed him self to be the recipient of his wife's transferred child hood memories. I know for a fact that some of the things he's said are from her child hood and not his own.

Celebgran, LibraChick, Dollie and I'm sure every one is the same; all those lovely cards and the nice things that used to be said, how much they loved us, how much we'd done for them, what would they have done with out us, the hugs and the kisses; gone all gone. Only memories now, but I don't even think our s has those any more; history re written .

Oh Celebgran sorry you've put on 2lbs and I was wanting to share a bit of good news, not sure if I should now, it's just that I really wanted to say that since first of Jan. I've lost 4lbs. I mean I have been trying and working hard at the gym but it was still a bit of a .

Have a good evening every one.

librachick you have probably said somewhere (but this thread is sooo long as are some of the posts) but why are you not going to counselling with your daughter?

It takes two to disagree and whilst you may not have been the one to start the argument you are clearly a key player in resolving it.
Counselling is a neutral environment where both parties can express their thoughts and perceptions in a safe environment. It might be worth calling her bluff and going to a counsellor together for a series of relationship sessions.

Look for solution focused counselling as these are time limited and really focus on helping the clients find a solution to the problem. Good luck.

you should have read the postings penstenamon...its not as cut and dry as going to counselling with estranged adult children if they point blankly want nothing to do with you....(i have no idea where my daughter is even after years of looking! ) its also been proven by a few of us grans that counselling has made the situation worse to the point theres no resolve!!!! it takes two to build bridges and only one to keep smashing it down beyond repair!

so what if the thread is long likewise the posts we are here supporting each other in this difficult time of our lives...