cut out of thier lives 2

Thanks whenim I do get very tired! I know we do too much but of course there is a reason for it. We have declined line dancing this morning!

I have only handful regular clients glad not busier really or would have cut back socialising! Been busier since Xmas due to ladies jetting of Caribbean lucky things!

What lovely news for your neibour she must be over the moon. Important that we all keep some hope alive. I struggle so badly to try accept my daughter does not want me, hardest thing in world.

Dollie so very upsetting for you not to know where your daughter lives, or if she is ok. I feel bad enough not able see or talk to mine but guess do know where she is unless they move.
Hope so much more of us have good news this year 2014

How wonderful Whenim she must be over joyed. Thank you for sharing such a happy ending, it does help to give us all some hope. A very sensible approach too, we've decided that if our s ever comes back to us a line will be drawn so the past stays in the past.

The hurtful things that have been said cannot be unsaid, and the terrible things that have been done cannot be undone. The lost years, however many they may be can never be replaced all you can do, when given the chance is to move forward.

You do well to keep your self busy Celebgran it's the best thing to do. That's why I went back to the gym, it gets me out of the house 3 mornings a week, I go for a 3 to 4 mile walk with a friend twice a week - weather permitting then there's shopping once a week so it all helps to keep me occupied. I work from home but it's only a few hours a week apart from a full day once a month.

Oh Dollie it must be so hard for you. When I think how hard it us for us with our s living a 2 minute walk down the road; at least we know where he is. It's amasing though how some one can keep themselves hidden if they really want too. Haven't actually seen him in months, not even a brief glimpse.

Surely some one could just let you know that she's OK. They don't have to tell where she is or any thing and she would never have to know. Having said that, I'm sure if she wasn't you'd hear about it. Bad news does travel fast and as the saying goes 'no news is good news' to cheer you up.

Hope you are managing to sleep LibraChick and that you and your ND are doing OK Yogagirl.

Have a good afternoon every one.

Smileless, thanks for your comment of how I am. I am fine, just at work, don’t get much time to come on during the week days. (on lunch break at mo).

Glad you enjoyed your meal out with Hubby.

Yogagirl, sorry you’re having a trough time and the moment. Hope you’re feeling a bit better today.

Celebgran, glad you enjoyed the movie. Shame you have these feelings when you’re still trying to keep avenues open with your daughter, they do so hurt us, I wonder if they realise how much pain we are in.

Hope you enjoy your Motown show, I love Motown.

Yes Celebgran I am sleeping much better, the night Kalms are definitely working for me.

What great news for your neighbour Whenim

Dollie, that is so said that you don’t know where your daughter is.

Hubby and I spent over 2 hours cooking Indian food last night, we’ve got friends over on Saturday for dinner, so just warming up, except rice and sag-a-loo to do tomorrow.

I’m not looking forward to next week as hubby is away to Luton for 4 days and nights.

It is really upsetting and frustration trying to accept why my daughter does not want me, or where she gets these feelings of me being a bad Mother when she was growing up and then looking at all the lovely photo’s, messages, letters, cards of how much she loved me and how proud she was of me when I had my graduation when I finished my BA degree in 2005. Also, the fact that at our wedding in 2010, what a great speech she gave to say, how proud and what a great Mum I have been and she’d be happy to be such a good Mum like me !!

Yes, Celebgran, I do hope an awful lot, if not all; get good news this year with our horrible offspring.

Joshua Coleman’s book, When Parent’s Hurt
(*I am finding it useful, even if it’s painful to read and think about my life with my daughter, but I am doing the exercises in the book.*)

This is an excerpt from Joshua Coleman’s book, When Parent’s Hurt.

Dear Mom,
I have decided that I don’t want to have any contact with you ever again. Please don’t write or call me anymore. I can’t stop thinking about all of the ways that you were never there for me when I was growing up. Whenever I see or talk to you, I just end up feeling depressed, angry, and upset for weeks afterwards. It’s just not worth it to me and I need to get on with my life. Please respect my wishes and don’t contact me again.
Letter from Clarice, 23 to her mother, Fiona, 48

Fiona sat on my couch in her first visit without looking at me or saying anything. She reached into her purse and handed me the letter from her daughter as if to say, “This says it all.” And it did. As a psychologist, I’ve counseled many adult children like Fiona’s daughter; in some cases, I’ve helped them to craft letters just like hers, or supported them in cutting off contact with a mother, a father, or both. I know the finality that these letters can portend. It’s deadly serious business and the stakes are huge—a therapist has no business giving advice in this arena unless they’ve carefully thought about the long-term implications of these decisions.

I felt for this desolate mother sitting in front of me because I knew that the letter could be the last contact that Fiona would ever have with her daughter. A flood of questions were already circulating in my mind. “Why is her daughter so angry at her? What has Fiona done to try to repair it? How capable has she been of taking responsibility or listening in a non-defensive way to her daughter’s complaints? How receptive will she be to my recommendations for how to respond?”

“I’m sorry,” I said, handing back the letter. ”That must be so painful.”

Fiona looked relieved, as though she had expected me to blame her. “I worry about her all of the time and can’t stop wondering what horrible thing I did to make my own child turn against me? I’m sure I made my fair share of mistakes, but I wasn’t that different with her than I was with the other three.” She started sobbing, “Clarice was always the hardest of my four children. Even when she was young, she seemed so impossible to please. We did everything for her; individual therapy, family therapy, medication, you name it – nothing seemed to make her feel happy or connected to us. My other kids resented her because she sucked all of the time, energy, and money out of the family that should have gone to all four of them. She won’t talk to my other kids, either, except for the youngest “It’s really heartbreaking,” she said, grabbing for the Kleenex. “It is so goddamned heartbreaking!”
Are Parents to Blame?

Not that long ago I would have assumed that Fiona must have done something terribly wrong to cause her daughter to respond in such a dramatic way. My training as a psychologist taught me that the problems of the adult child can always be linked to some form of mistreatment from the parent. While this is often true, it doesn’t hold for all families. And when it is true, it’s often a far more complex picture than most therapists and self-help authors realize.

As I worked with Fiona over the next few months, I came to understand that she had been a reasonable and conscientious mother. As her story and others illustrate, it is possible to be a devoted and conscientious parent and still have it go badly. You can do everything right and your child can still grow up and not want to have the kind of relationship with you that you always hoped you’d have. You can do everything right, and your child may still end up with a drug problem that costs you thousands of dollars and endless heartache. You can do everything right and your child may still choose the kind of friends or partners that you never imagined she would have chosen because these people seem so lost and are dragging your child into losing more. You can do everything right and your child can still fail to launch a successful adulthood despite being gifted and talented or possessing an IQ that most people would kill for.

Very few of us escape feeling guilt towards our offspring. It may be part of our evolutionary heritage, a way that nature hardwires us to stay sensitive to them, even after they’re grown. And some parents are responsible for transgressions that are harmful to their children: child abuse, incest, neglect, and alcoholism are a few of the more egregious examples. However, whether the parenting mistakes are subtle or serious, real or imagined, today’s parents are completely confused by their children’s failures and accusations. They need guidance and support for themselves, not more advice about their children.

to everyone

Thank you so much LibraChick for taking the time to share such a long excerpt from the book you're reading. We do need guidance and support and not just more advice about our children.

I am totally confused, hurt and bewildered by our s's actions and accusations, as I know we all are be they s's or d's. I'm pleased to hear that you're fine and work is keeping you busy.

Was having a bit of a wobble when I saw you'd messaged; you've made me feel a little better. Thank you

Libra chick thanks for that excerpt so similar to what happened to me letter from Daughter march 2009 last contact ever had.

Except she was far more unkind blaming my whole personality like you say libra doe not add up to all the lovley cards letters saying just the opposite, were they all shallow and untrue ?

Will order that book I think wasn't there another one?
Glad you managing sleep better, I don't always wake up a lot. Stuff like East Enders lady having breast cancer and her daughters. Being there for her makes me hurt and feel so low and different from all other mums!

Enjoy your Indian meal with friends well done for cooking it yourselves !

Sorry enough self pity.

Smileless e kind to yourself we all have wobbles! Don't forget is much more recent for you and yogagirl than me. I have set backs ie when new baby born but sometimes I just have to give in and indulge I good cry!
There is no shame in that.

On brighter note thanks libra we hope enjoy Motown tonight.

Not done much today but have had quality time together and spoken to my twin brother.

Also organised to see my beautiful little Great niece next week so not bad!
Braved shops for few bits why do I spend over £100 at morrisions and forget potatoes and natural yoghurt and lemon still forgot lemon!!

Hope we all have good weekend keep smiling and strong all of us coping with heartache

Smileless & Celebgran, glad you liked the excerpt. The other book is Invisible Grandparenting, by Pat Hanson Ph.D

Also have a look at invisiblegrandparent.com

Smileless, I know how you feel, but keep your chin up, are our S & D’s even giving one thought about us.

I went to Asda on way home from work, and a little boy come running around the corner in the store, and shouted Grandma, then said sorry, I thought you were my Grandma, the mother just apologised. I had the biggest lump in my throat, thought I was going to burst into tears. Going around the store I kept thinking what would happen if that was one of my GS’s and what would my daughter do, as she uses the same shops that I do. .

Okay Grans, lets promise ourselves to try not to think of our offspring this weekend and pamper ourselves, have a nice long walk, swim, bath or buy a nice bunch of flowers to ourselves. I know, hard, but we are worth it – for you Grans, because you are worth it.

interesting read librachick thankyou...in full agreement with the last sentence...

Evening ladies. Yes dollie I agree, the last sentence was spot on wasn't it. I've got both books on order and am looking forward to getting in to them.

I've often wondered Celebgran if all the lovely cards and things that were said ever meant any thing to my s, but you know what, just bec. he's re written history and turned some thing wonderful in to some thing distasteful doesn't mean I have to as well. So I wont. We have our wonderful memories; how sad for them if they've discarded them as well as us.

Ooooh lucky you; I love Motown, hubby hates it so I only play it when he's not here, unless I want to wind him up of course . Hope you really enjoy your self, have a feeling you will.

Your supermarket experience must have been awful LibraChick well done for keeping it together.

Isn't this a wonderful forum. We can support, inspire and care for one another. Share stories of hope as Whenim did earlier today. Yes I had a wobble today but all who have put messages on today have helped me once again.

My thanks to you all . Have a good evening every one. Thinking of you Yogagirl hope you and D are OK.

Hello Girls
to you all to try and ease your sorrows and heal your hearts.
Horrid when you get something like that happen to you Librachick I think we all get this in one way or the other, when my friends talk of their GC or even worse if they are there with them and you have to join in with the cooing, your heart braking in two, then our heart must surly be used to it by now. My D and GC live just 5mins away Dollie, but they may as well be in Aus. I don't know how they are, if they have been taken to hospital, when I hear an ambulance go by, I always think of them, "is it one of them?"
Things have really kicked off big time, its terrible, my poor ND is really getting attacked by her brother, she has been sooo diplomatic, but to no avail. My S contracted Lymes disease a few years back, this is from a Deer tick bite, we wonder if its effecting his brain, as he is so malevolent!
I replied to my ex's hate filled email, it went as a round robin, I only know this as my ND told me that the other add.'s have been put in invisibly. but I'm glad that everyone has heard the truth. My ND said "Maybe this is a good thing, everyone can know see what we have had to put up with, the threats and abuse and foul language"
I'm reading 'The invisible grandparent'. it brings a tear to my eye, I also ordered 'Family estrangements' by Barbara Leby, haven't received it yet and the two other books I've put aside to buy when I finished the other two. It takes me a long time to read a book, as I only read them on Tues and Weds evenings when I get in from my late class, I read them in bed, just a few chapters, then I'm quite tired as it's getting on for 1am by then. The other two are ' When parents hurt' that some of you are reading, so I'm looking forward to that and the other is 'Healing from family rifts' which I think was mentioned on here.
Smileless we'll all come round when your hubby's working in Luton and have a girlie night in and perhaps Celebgran can do our feet, I'd love mine done
and to you all, I'm just going to get another glass of wine as it's my night off. xx

Smileless I wish I was as articulate as you that is so lovley it is sad if our estranged so son and daughter choose to turn our lovely memories into something bad, we must not do that.

You have great way putting things.

Thank you all was great fun just got I. And rustled up cheese o toast with poached egg, we did enjoy Motown was sell put and brilliant!
Thank god they did not place one day in your life when did Michael Jackson songs I would have been in tears, it was released year he died and all this kicked off.
librachick so feel for you that is so sad I guess as smileless says we all been there but so raw for you. I would have been in tears.

Better get ready bed now have drive oh work (not far) just need get up been so lazy today ! Tom Claire bless coming give me blodry and the afternoon tea with good friend.

Quiz Tom night energy permitting for poor oh.

Smileless shame we can't come support you 4 days long while but will give you lots cyber support!
Foot treatment welcome to all ladies from a queue!
Night night all x

Ps libra your exert spurred us on t order when parents hurt and family estrangement did download tasters of quite a few free so that was good idea.
However ordered fully copies of above they will take couple weeks to come!

Is fantastic how we all support each other it helps me so very much.

yogagirlnot sure if celebgran's hubby is going to Luton too!! But my hubby is, on Tuesday, so all welcome for the week, I can do tapas one night, Italian one night, out for dinner next, then next night free for all. We can have neck massages and pedicures and , lots of chat and laughs.

Busy day today, hair appt, going to try and cancel, as want to get hairdresser in Midlands to do it when we go down at end of month for long weekend, wash & groom Inkie (westie), vacuum everywhere, wash hard floors downstairs, get dining room ready for guests/dinner tonight then have a bath to have a wee read of book, glass of and relax .

Might look at these books mentioned, after I have finished the ones I have.

Remember, pamper weekend ladies. Hugs to them who need them. xxxx

No some confusion here about whose husband going where! Sorry libra chick and smileless let's blame yogagirl!

Up early for me take. Oh to work and do e bit shopping now for some chores before hairdo!

Hope party goes well libra makes me feel tired all that work your going to do!

I did not sleep well despite great night out, sometimes it drives me mad going round and round In My brain and blaming myself for our sad situation, suspect it is because my daughter birthday on Monday.

Have great time libra and you too smileless and yogagirl whatever you up to. Try hard yogagirl to to let it all drag you down.

Afternoon ladies. Had a lovely 3 mile walk this morning followed by a nice relaxing bath. Taking your advice LibraChick and am going to get a little pampering in to my weekend. What a lovely idea can you imagine all the fun we'd have if we did get together.

You can cook LibraChick, Celebgran can give us all a pampering after Yogagirl has put us through our paces and I can what can I do, I know I can just keep telling you all how wonderful you are. So that's got that sorted then.

SO glad you enjoyed your Motown experience Celebgran. That was showing near us a couple of months ago but hubby didn't want to go still he took me to the Michael Jackson Tribute so I'll let him off, or is it coming near us soon. If that's the case I'll tell him how much you enjoyed it and see if I can twist his arm .

Sorry you didn't sleep well last night I'm sure it's bec. it's your d's bday on Monday Celebgran. There always seems to be something that makes the separation even harder to cope with doesn't there. Thank you for those kind words. It does me so much good sharing my thoughts with all of you.

Relieved the mention of my hubby going to Luton has been cleared up. Have to say I was more than a little , had a bit of an OMG moment as I was sure he was going to Manchester for 2 nights next week, which of course he is. Have a friend stopping over for one night and we're planning to eat, drink and be merry.

Going to friends this evening for a meal and our monthly 'games night'. Tonight they're hoping to teach us to play cards. Oh boy I hope they've got plenty of patience bec. they're going to need it - with me any way.

Hope your friends enjoy the meal you've prepared for them LibraChickand you have a good quiz night Celebgran. Hope you and ND are OK Yogagirl.

I hope you enjoy this long post ladies if only bec. this is the second time I've typed it. Had almost finished the first time when it disappeared and that's not the first time this has happened to me .

Why does it always happen with the long posts?

for you all.

PS Hubby back from work and laughed when I told him about my post bec. he's going to Birmingham, not Manchester. Scary or what!!!

Morning ladies, hope you're all having a good Sunday. M.i.l. is coming for tea today so I'm making a lemon meringue pie .

Had a great time last night. Put our plan in to action and didn't talk about it, just relaxed and had a laugh. Will only mention it to friends if there are any developments. Of course I wouldn't be able to do that if it weren't for this wonderful forum and all you lovely ladies.

How's your pampering going LibraChick? Did you get to your quiz night Celebgran and if so did you win? I know tomorrow is going to be tough for you so I'm sending you some and I'll be thinking of you.

It's raining here, hope you have some where you are and that you're having a good day Yogagirl. Better get on with my pie.

Thank you so muoh smileless yes no wasn't avoid those tough dates is there?

We are not very good at quizzes and it was very full so had to sit in side room about 20 overspill which did not help with my hearing! We don't expect to win, my good friend and her husband go to loads quizzes with a cousin and they normally win we left in hurry worried about Rosie but don't think they won !

Well done lemon meringue is one of my favourites!, not made for ages.
We went to mass first time for ages try get bit peace and calm oh not catholic but comes, then just had cooked breakfast, albeit healthy all fat off bacon etc. been better if I let oh get on with it as tried help managed tip egg on hob both bit tired today. Him from work and I actually did lot housework yesterday! Then had lovely couple hrs with Anita my good friend. Her mum is 91 and broke her femur and knee last nov still can't walk just had plaster off so our outing been not happening basically! Still we all hope go away ini 3'weeksmfor weekend.

Libra hope the Indian was huge success ! Sure it was.

Yogagirl hope you ok and having go Sunday.

Love and hope to us all.

Will confess I came across my daughter baby book yesterday and put some pics on f book then worried would upset my son but he shared one photo so don't reckon.

Grr iPad wish wouldn't predict me wrong ! I meant no way to avoid those tough dates is there smileless.

Good idea try not to discuss the sadness unless reason to as puts damper on events. My first counsellor who was lovely man said try not to make our daughter the main focus in our times together or with friends. I said how can we not discuss it he said simple instead of thinking about it stop and don't think about it anything else instead, not sure if am making sense.!

Afternoon Girls
Sorry Smileless looks like we're all round to Librachicks for girlie w/e, be at yours next week then I seemed to have confused everyone about where their husbands will be next week sorry If you lose your post Smileless try the back arrow at the top left.
Glad to hear you enjoyed your Motown night Celebgran, my friends and I have just booked to go in March. My thoughts will be with you tomorrow on your D b/day.
Just had to stop to put my little dog's dinner in, I have a little westie too Librachick, they are very fussy aren't they, mine has roast chicken, roast pots veg and gravy! she eats better than me. I'm half watching 'hidden kingdoms'(recorded) whilst writing this,with the little elephant mouse, so sweet, the photography is amazing! My ordered book arrived yesterday, 'family estrangements' by Barbara LeBey, it says " how they begin, how to mend them, how to cope with them, so I'm looking forward to reading that after 'Invisible grandparent'
After my morning Yoga class, I had a restful afternoon watching ' the in-laws' with Michael Dougals, so funny! also indulging in the chocolate my ND bought me for Christmas, it was a basket full of cups and saucers spoons, flowers and more all made of chocolate. lovely!, so that two pounds I lost after Xmas, has just gone back on again
Well that's the nice stuff, now for the rotten stuff. As I said last time, its all kicked off big time, they were gunning for my ND and now they are going for my prev.f.i.l,(D and ND granddad), its so bad,so disrespectful, saying some terrible things, calling him an unintelligent ignoramus! this is a man who had a place in Mayfair London and worked in the 'Houses of Parliament' so highly intelligent and successful. They have said they want nothing to do with anyone in the family!! Strangely enough, I have been left out of it! apart from when my f.i.l said he wanted to reconnect the ties with me and they replied "...that ....piece of s**t, invite her to dinner then ......" other than that nothing! My ND had said to me 'prepare yourself for the backlash of replying to dads email' (my ex) but so far nothing! My ND and I feel really sorry for my prev.f.i.l but now they can all see clearly what we have had to suffer for the last 14mnths(me)/12mnths(ND). The truly terrible emails that have just been sent to ND and prev.f.i.l (their granddad),we(myself, ND and prev.f.i.l) are sure are written by my nasty s.i.l but written from my D email add. so it is saying from her, but you cannot see who's writing an email can you and we are sure it's him! My ND is forwarding all the email correspondence to me, to keep me in the loop.
Sorry girls another long post so.. and to keep you going. and fordollie

Oh dear so cold and gloomy today ! Just done my bedridden lady very hard going as she is not happy lady! Sad as she could. Make effort but doesn't and puts visitors off poor lady.

Still gave her nice manicure.

Sorry yogagirl that you have so much hassle in family life too short isn't it.

Glad some things going well.

Hope you ok smileless and other ladies too.
Thanks for good wishes is hard for me today, woke up last night thinking of all I have done for my daughter especially all tender care when she was poorly as kids are with various ailments.

Folk dancing tonight will cheer us up.

How yoga classes going yogagirl?

Evening ladies. I hope you've all had a good day. How are you doing Celebgran I expect you'll be glad when this day is over. It's so difficult when their bdays come around and we can't celebrate with them the way we used too; cards, pressies, hugs and cuddles.

Oh I remember those hugs and cuddles; never thought there would be a day when all I'd have left are my memories . Hope you enjoy your folk dancing; remember to look after those knees.

Oh Yogagirl how could any one refer to you in such an awful way . No, you can never tell you is actually sending an email, you assume it's from the person whose email address is being used, but who knows for certain. Your s.i.l. is a bully and like all bully's he's a coward.

Got my first book today 'Invisible Grandparenting; only read the first 5 pages and it made me feel rather ; guess I'm not in the right frame of mind today so I'll take another look tomorrow.

Had a nice afternoon and evening with my m.i.l. yesterday. She hadn't realised how bad things had been until she read the note we got on Christmas Eve. She kept saying disrespectful and ungrateful our s is; no answer to that apart from agreement.

Hope you had a good week end LibraChick and took some time out to pamper your self.

House to my self as hubby away, so I think I'll have an early night. Gym and a busy day has left me feeling more tired than usual. Must be getting old .

Sleep well one and all

Morning Girls
As if I don't have enough problems, my PC has crashed and I don't think it can be fixed. Went on internet and followed instructions on how to repair, but no good, so will have to get up in the attic for my one (S swapped them over a few years back) but I will have lost all my files! It would be 'that' time of year; Tax return time, don't think I trust this tablet to do the job.
Thanks for asking about my classes Celebgran they are going really well, but need more, as I need an awful lot to earn enough money to pay my bills. My dad would always say to me "get a proper job!" but I love teaching my Yoga and decided I'd rather live on a small income and be happy. I have a new 1to1 private student starting next week, but that will now take away my free Friday, that I've tried to keep.
Yes Smileless I remember the hugs and cuddles and the "I love you mummy" (and nannie), all gone now . That book made me sad too and gave me a bad night when I first read it, but still reading it, it's very good, apart from the mum/nan in it is not like us on here (set in USA).
Recieved more hate mail from my ex. replied to all his lies, so hope it will stop now, I've blocked him anyway. My f.i.l tried phoning my D twice (her granddad), without an answer, and has said he will travel down on Sunday to see her. This is how it began with me, so he may find the curtains pulled when he arrives, with them hiding inside. What on earth will happen next!
Hope you're ok Librachick dollie and all

as a last resort have you tried resetting your computer back to factory default yogagirl? you will loose everything you have on there but it might get the computer going..

had a very formal email out of the blue from older daughter telling me she is moving to another town...i didnt reply as i had nothing to say to her...a few days later i had another email having a go at me because i didnt respond to her email!! ( weve not been in contact for months) so i just sent a message back to say ive received the email then she promply sent one back 'IS THAT IT' no i didnt bite back as i know from experience that it would end in a slanging match and i cant take them anymore...at least the grankids are adults now and they do pop in occasionally to see me...

hope everyone is ok .. [ flowers] very foggy here today i cant see the bottom of the garden...

Hi dollie so sorry for your hurt, what can you do after all thats been done to break your heart, stay strong

I've just seen my gs only fleetingly bec. she tried to avoid me but I saw him and called out "hello ....." so he looked round at me and smiled and as she walked off as quickly as she could he was looking at me, right at me over her shoulder, so I just kept waving both hands up in the air and called out "bye bye .....". He's beautiful and it's the first time I've seen his beautiful little face for almost a year!!

How did it come about? Well I popped in to my mum's on the way back from the gym with some shopping. Those of you who know my story will know their best friends live next door to my mum. As I pulled up I saw, out of the corner of my eye that she was leaving and I heard her call out to my gs "come back, now"; she wanted to prevent me from even seeing him. So, I didn't look and went in to my mum's keeping an eye out of her living room window. A couple of minutes later she left and as she walked past I opened the front door and, well you know the rest.

The last time I did this was last spring, when my hubby met up with our s, our s told him it was a childish thing for me to do, if I'd wanted to talk to our gs I should have asked my d.i.l. Yeah right, she's going to say OK you can talk to your gs when she hides in case I've spotted her and then makes a break for it when she thinks I'm not looking!!

I've never done this if he's with the child minder as I wouldn't put her in a difficult position. I wish I could have seen her face, I bet she was furious. .

Honestly dollie what does your daughter expect after the way you've been treated. They're unbelievable aren't they, think they can treat us like .... and we'll just put up with it bec. they're our children. Well they'll always be our children but they're adults and should behave like adults.

You were absolutely right to keep your response short. We have enough to contend with hope these cheer you up. It's good that your gc are old enough to call in and see you but it doesn't make your hurt any less does it.

Sorry about your computer Yogagirl, what a pain; you're certainly getting more than your fare share of bad luck. Good for you to responding to your ex's lies and then blocking him; hope that's the; last you hear from him. Glad you told me you found the book upsetting, thought it was just me. I'll keep going with it.

Hope you're OK LibraChick and Celebgran. Left a message on hubby's mobile asking him to rings so I can tell him I've seen our gs. As it's the second time in the same circumstances, as soon as he 'phones I'll sing "oops I did it again", bet he guesses correctly. Oooh I wish he'd answered, he's only been gone one night and I miss him already.

Have a good rest of the day every one. I'm still after seeing my gs, expect it to last all day.