dirty old men

Sorry, ethel, but what are you on about? My advice (rubbish, apparently) was reiterated by nearly everyone on this thread.

You did say in your OP that it was a self-organised group with no leader - now apparently there is someone 'in charge' and also he is 'a leader'.

absent, I admit it - something similar crossed my mind.
Age is no excuse. Surely the leader sees/hears his friend invading your space and pestering you, or doesn't he want to maybe?
Must do a bit of my needlework picture now. Craft club tomorrow and a kind member lent me her frame at least a year ago...

Well, I went to a self-organised group with no particular leader; however, someone had to be in charge of opening up the hall, and another was a professional artist who was more than happy to help everyone, so I may have said they were 'leaders'.

However, I think if anyone had behaved like that, someone would have been on their case pretty quickly even though everyone was 'elderly' (well, retired anyway).

My point was that etheltbags said there was no leader in her OP.

If there is/was then obviously that would have been the person to bring the subject up with after the first incident.

etheltbags1 you are presenting yourself confusingly as someone who is quite able to stand up for themself and also as someone who intends to run away from this nasty man.
You have had lots of supportive posts and advice so now it's up to you what you do about it.

ethelbags if this art class is run by a reputable organisation then ask the 'leader' for a copy of their sexual harassment policy. If it's just run by a local 'artist' who is doing it to boost his income then, his comment to you suggests he's not a fit person to lead, so leave and find another class.

Though before you do that you might try standing up to this pest - you'll have nothing to lose if you plan to leave anyway, and if the reaction of the class is hostile you'll know exactly where you stand.

They might just surprise you though.

update on dirty old man: I have been to the class now for 2 weeks and he hasn't attended. I told the guy who runs it and also the secretary and they both promised to speak to him therefore he has obviously got the message.
Now I feel sorry for the bloke and as hes almost 90, I told his friend that he should come back to the class as long as he leaves me alone.

Im hoping to go back to work next week and may not be able to fit the class in but if I do go back and he is there I will just be polite. I don't want people thinking Im vindictive.

Well done ethelbags1.
He may choose not to come back, as he may not trust himself.

You were in no way vindictive. Please dont act as though you have done anything wrong. You haven't.
That is sometimes how people who do those sorts of things want you to feel.

Perhaps he has been on holiday?
Mountains and molehills spring to mind ethelt, surely something you could deal with very easily.

It partly depends on a person's personality. Plus she appeared to have next to no back up.
Plus there is no guarantee that people of this nature dont just keep repeating their bad behaviour, regardless of what anyone says or does.

It is a tricky situation. I know of a similar situation. The man never stopped. And I am not usre that police would be/are interested in this sort of thing.
Shaming them doesnt work. Everyone giggling behond their backs doesnt work.

I hope it is sorted out now etheltbags

And I hope he has not targeted another 'victim'.

After being missing for a few weeks the old guy came back this week, I had told his friend that I would not say anything more if he came back. He was apparently too embarrassed to return, however he came back and I offered him a sweet he just ignored me. I was trying to be nice but he wouldn't reciprocate. So I am ok with him being like that at least he is not being filthy. MEN !!!!!

Great! He's the one who deserves to feel bad, not you.

It's interesting that women can still feel 'obliged to be polite' in the face of abusive behaviour from men. Our generation was conditioned to put up and shut up. We shouldn't cause a scene or 'hurt' anyones feelings...

I would encourage you to feel differently inside and summon your power and know you have the right to protect yourself from unwanted inappropriate behaviour. And I agree that these sleezy men have probably been like this long before now. This behaviour is about having power over women and needing to humiliate. This was no cheeky spontaneous flirt..the man has planned ahead. Classic sex offender behaviour!

We need to give our grandchildren good role models, especially girls, about refusing to accept unwanted touch. Equally, unlike in my generation, I am a believer in not forcing kids to kiss and cuddle grandparents, uncles, aunties etc... All that this teaches them is to not listen to their internal selves and that their bodies and what they do with them is not their decision to make.

Personally I would be speaking to the organisation who set up this group and ask to have him removed.Or I might even report him to the police...If he's doing this to you,in public,God knows what he's doing elsewhere.

Sorry to be 'heavy' but its a very current issue.

Errmm, if you read back, etheltbags did speak to the organisers, Philippa, and it would seem that a satisfactory outcome has been achieved.

I did not want to make a scene and bearing in mind he is almost 90, the others are used to him and make a big fuss of him, I felt that if I made a big scene I should be the one to leave the group. I will, however make a very big fuss if he does anything like that again.
I think he probably does not understand modern ways

'Listen to me you dirty old man, if you do not stop sexually harrassing me I will report you to the police' said loudly, should do the job.

Age is irrelevant. If he is capable of dealing with modern technology, as was said earlier, he is capable of understanding hiw to behave properly in public. Sexual harrassment has never been acceptable in front of people in public, unless the group supported it,which they clearly dont. Groups will often deal with awkward and embarrassing behaviour from one member by glossing over it and infantilising the perpetrator, by doing that they implicitly endorse his behaviour. You have made your distaste for his behaviour clear. If it continues, say the above, but perhaps not too loudly.

ok MOnica, I will do what you say, I didn't see him this week so maybe it will have blown over by the time I next see him.

How disgusting of that dirty old man (DOM) Etheltbags1

Why didn't you feel empowered to protest at the time? He must be an old hand at this crude behaviour and can also spot a potential victim.

Have you told the other women yet? Get there early, when he appears, call him by his name, then, standing exactly where you are, use his name to draw his attention, then loudly and publicly warn " Your behaviour is totally unacceptable, so shape up or ship out." You *don't walk over to him.

I look forward to reading how you dealt with his perverted behaviour.

As for wolf whistles, I don't understand why they're hated. It's a quick response. If wolf whistles are now a precursor to crude comments, then do I understand.

I haven't been to the class for three weeks, I ve had a minor op and lots of tests in the hospital, Im back at work so Ive had to put the class on the backburner. I will probably see him next week. He will not dare to make a remark again or I will really will sort him out, Lucky

Go for the jugular ethelt!

saw him today, I said 'hello' and he said 'hello'. All very civilised.
He knows to behave himself in future.
So nothing very exciting but he is nearly 90 so I will be lenient to him.

Never too old to learn, obviously

Gosh ethelbags you're complaining about getting wolf whistles?
Why? I haven't for years now. Probably something to do with my girth

So how has the creep behaved recently? As the other men in the group commented on his aberrant behaviour, what have they done about it?
Time they put him straight.