To think this is odd in view of what’s already been said

Callistemon21

Surely, if he had a shred of decency, he would have looked at some of the girls and thought "They're just children, not much older than my own little girls. I can't bear the thought of middle aged men taking advantage of Beatrice and Eugenie were circumstances different. I must do something to stop this".

He knew, he colluded and did nothing even if he didn't rape any of them.
He is a disgrace.

So agree with you

I'm not disagreeing with you Petera but when it comes down to whether or not PA had sex with her, we'll never know.

That's true, and sorry to have gone off half-cocked.

One of the saddest things is that I would be willing to believe that even he doesn't know

Smileless2012

I'm not disagreeing with you Petera but when it comes down to whether or not PA had sex with her, we'll never know.

No, I would think it would be "he said, she said" if it had come to court.

He either knew exactly what the score was with Epstein or he's more stupid than he appears to be.
Obviously didn't inherit his mother 's intelligence and sharp mind.

Saw this and laughed

‘The grand old Duke Of York
He had ten million quid
He gave it to someone he’d never met
For something he never did’

There are only 2 options, did or didn't.

I don't really see the appeal of hanging around with underage girls who are obviously used for sex unless that's your type of party.

So logically the truth is he did and we can definitely know it.

What we can't do is prove it

Not the same thing at all

I think I could believe that too Petera.

Yes it would have come down to that Callistemon so I don't think either of them were in a strong position to 'win'. The settlement makes sense and must be a huge relief to his family and perhaps to her too.

LucyLocket55 ?

Me too. I wish V. G.the very best. I had hoped Andrew would be made an example for anyone endeavouring to take advantage of those bought and sold, groomed and abused. Hopefully he will loose his York title.

Smileless2012

I agree it's a bit of a stretch Kalu so why did you mention rape in your earlier post.

"I have read/heard of many women in the UK who decide not to report being raped for fear of not being believed. PA however, has a reputation which earned him the name Andy Randy which speaks volumes".

So what did you intend to say or imply?

I have no idea or facts to quote concerning PA’s behaviour. I certainly did not accuse him of rape, I included him as being another male involved with sexual abuse of women. Whether he took part or not, he knew what was going on at Epstein’s house. Rape and sexual abuse suffered by any woman can be extremely harrowing for the victim to be believed.

HTH Smileless

Yes that does help Kalu, thanks for responding.

Callistemon21

Surely, if he had a shred of decency, he would have looked at some of the girls and thought "They're just children, not much older than my own little girls. I can't bear the thought of middle aged men taking advantage of Beatrice and Eugenie were circumstances different. I must do something to stop this".

He knew, he colluded and did nothing even if he didn't rape any of them.
He is a disgrace.

Well that's what it boils down to really. What on earth was he doing hanging around in that sort of environment when he was a man in his 40s with two young daughters.

Whatever the truth of what happened between him and the girl, his general behaviour was pretty sleazy and disgusting. I feel really sorry for his daughters and, of course the Queen.

What on earth was he doing hanging around in that sort of environment when he was a man in his 40s with two young daughters.
Even if he was "just" having an affair with an older woman (the Keating woman was at the house too at the same time), the place was set up like a high class (or tacky, take your pick) brothel. What a world he mixed in.

It must be difficult for his daughters to hold him in any sort of esteem, I'd think.

I think we forget that PA's behaviour caused collateral damage in his own family. His daughters have had to see all the sleaze and details of his unseemly life plastered all over the papers.

I think it remarkable that these daughters of two such totally dysfunctional adults they seem to have turned out, so very well and face up to the world with such equanimity.

They seem to have inherited the steely self-possession when confronting disaster that the Queen has.

As Beswitched has said, he was a man in his 40s with two young daughters.

Whatever the truth of the claim by VG - shame on him for hanging around with a man with a known reputation.

Epstein used young women - like Andrew's own daughters - as playthings for wealthy businessmen. He should be utterly ashamed of himself.

The whole thing makes me laugh!
She was 17 when they supposedly had sex in England, so she was of age!
She said it's not about the money, yet SHE received around £12mill and her charity (whatever that is) ONLY £2mill.
Unless there's been an update.
Surely the charity should have received it all, if it wasn't about the money!
He's creepy as hell, anyway, imho!
He should be demoted and forgotten about!!!

I understand that the girl was under age under the law in some US states (not NY for instance) but to call him a paedophile is ridiculous.

I agree Germanshepherdsmum a paedophile is attracted to children.

There are other 'definitions' for being attracted to pubescent individuals. Lets not pretend any of this is just normal behaviour. Someone married in their 40s having sex with random teenagers at parties can't just be run of the mill, ok behaviour by most people's stretch of the imagination

Smileless2012

I agree Germanshepherdsmum a paedophile is attracted to children.

So if it had happened in England he would be a paedophile?

No, if it happened she was 17 wasn't she? The age of consent in the UK is 16.

So if it had happened in England he would be a paedophile? Absolutely not. In UK law the age of consent is 16 so it was legal. Even if it wasn’t it doesn’t make him a paedophile. A paedophile is attracted to young children. I’m not defending his alleged behaviour just the media’s habit of misusing the term paedophile.

Smileless2012

No, if it happened she was 17 wasn't she? The age of consent in the UK is 16.

From NSPCC:

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) defines a child as everyone under 18 unless, "under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier". In England a child is defined as anyone who has not yet reached their 18th birthday.

Is procurement of under 18s from other countries for prostitution legal in the UK?