Assigned female at birth

Why not say at birth , - gender to be ascertained - when non -discript newly birthed human person reaches adulthood & can choose for themselves, possibly depending on the day of the week. Yes I am being fascitious .( have I spelt, spelled , that correctly?)
People IMO already accept folks for who or what they are , our want to be , please let’s drop the labels altogether.

argymargy

@Doodledog I no longer know which side I'm on here and which posters are pro or anti, however I disagree with this:

There is no need for anyone to say or do anything. As I said upthread, all that needs to happen is that everyone is invited to come in for a smear test.

As I think we previously agreed, the language included in this invitation is both unnecessarily confusing and potentially offputting. Cervical screening only reaches around 75% of eligible women/persons and the NHS should be making every effort to entice the 25% who don't take it up. Using uncommon (for many) phrases like "assigned female at birth" is not helpful, so for that reason someone DOES need to do something.

Yes, you are right. What I meant was that there is no need for terms line ‘assigned female at birth’, as they muddy the waters and may deter people who have always been known as ‘women’.

argymargy

@Doodledog I no longer know which side I'm on here and which posters are pro or anti, however I disagree with this:

There is no need for anyone to say or do anything. As I said upthread, all that needs to happen is that everyone is invited to come in for a smear test.

As I think we previously agreed, the language included in this invitation is both unnecessarily confusing and potentially offputting. Cervical screening only reaches around 75% of eligible women/persons and the NHS should be making every effort to entice the 25% who don't take it up. Using uncommon (for many) phrases like "assigned female at birth" is not helpful, so for that reason someone DOES need to do something.

Do you have any evidence about the people who are not taking up the test argymargy is it possible that a large proportion of them are transmen or non-binary and that in fact is why we need assigned female atbirth to ensure they are reached.

trisher we need assigned female atbirth to ensure they are reached
Is that the royal we or are you purporting to speak for everyone?
With repect, you don’t!

that in fact is why we need assigned female atbirth to ensure they are reached.

How about females including transmen and non-binary ? That is factual, everyone with a cervix is covered by that, nobody omitted.
I'd still prefer women.
In the format used why assigned which is incorrect, why not observed, which is factual?

How does anyone 'assign' a gender at birth? Is there a quota system to ensure that reproduction continues at the desired rate?

Doodledog

How does anyone 'assign' a gender at birth? Is there a quota system to ensure that reproduction continues at the desired rate?

Yep my midwife niece goes out into the community, or into the delivery suite with blue labels and pink ones. Hides one of each in each hand and gets the mother to pick a hand, she likes to involve them in the assigning. Of course, if too many pinks are randomly picked she cheats and puts a blue in both hands

*in each hand should read her hands

Bridgeit

Why not say at birth , - gender to be ascertained - when non -discript newly birthed human person reaches adulthood & can choose for themselves, possibly depending on the day of the week. Yes I am being fascitious .( have I spelt, spelled , that correctly?)
People IMO already accept folks for who or what they are , our want to be , please let’s drop the labels altogether.

Actually Bridgeit it is proposed in some places that gender shouldn't be assigned at birth but should be a choice. Sex would be on medical records but nowhere else.

gender, sex ....still used interchangeably in order to confuse. Is gender recorded any where, isn't it sex on your birth certificate and medical records? Who gives a toss what gender, if any, you claim to have?

Doodledog

Indeed it is. Which is why so many feminists oppose having the language mangled.

I know it seems trivial to a lot of people, but I really feel that words matter, and that it is worth making a fuss about this sort of thing. Saying that 'gender is assigned at birth' is buying into a dangerous agenda, and I will not have it applied to me.

But feminism doesn't have to accept the patriarchal conditioning that says one set of people's rights outclass another's. It's simple to say use language which includes everyone. Replacing male privilege with female privilege really isn't the aim anymore. Change the system. Create equality.

Agreed trisher

Rosie51

gender, sex ....still used interchangeably in order to confuse. Is gender recorded any where, isn't it sex on your birth certificate and medical records? Who gives a toss what gender, if any, you claim to have?

Well someone must or these threads would just die away.

Stop shoehorning patriarchy into every post, trisher. It's obvious that it's just a dig. Nobody is asking anyone to replace male privilege with female. It's not a 'privilege' to be allowed to discuss your concerns and commonalities with others of the same sex, but that right will be removed if we go down the road of 'gender' being 'assigned', rather than sex being observed.

But if people don't understand (and you apparently don't) that one of the tools of patriarchy is creating conflict by denying some people rights and pretending that some people are more entitled than others why would you stop me talking about it? Feminism tried establishing equal rights under a patriarchal system. They've been at it for ages and it hasn't worked, Smash the patriarchy establish a system where all people matter. Don't just buy into the system.

I’m not just buying into the system.

Quite right Doodledog. I mean for goodness sake, what ever someone decides when they're older they know whether they were male or female when they were born, so whether or not for example they have a cervix.

IMO the current conflict has nothing to do with patriarchy, but everything to do with a small vocal minority of the trans community seeking to usurp the hard fought for rights of women.

Smileless2012
IMO the current conflict has nothing to do with patriarchy, but everything to do with a small vocal minority of the trans community seeking to usurp the hard fought for rights of women.
Not just that small group unfortunately, but some vociferous females who support the small vocal minority of the trans community.

trisher

But if people don't understand (and you apparently don't) that one of the tools of patriarchy is creating conflict by denying some people rights and pretending that some people are more entitled than others why would you stop me talking about it? Feminism tried establishing equal rights under a patriarchal system. They've been at it for ages and it hasn't worked, Smash the patriarchy establish a system where all people matter. Don't just buy into the system.

It's not that I don't understand, trisher. It's just that I don't agree.

Smileless2012

Quite right Doodledog. I mean for goodness sake, what ever someone decides when they're older they know whether they were male or female when they were born, so whether or not for example they have a cervix.

IMO the current conflict has nothing to do with patriarchy, but everything to do with a small vocal minority of the trans community seeking to usurp the hard fought for rights of women.

Exactly my point of view, Smileless. Thanks for confirming that I am not losing the plot.

Rosie51

gender, sex ....still used interchangeably in order to confuse. Is gender recorded any where, isn't it sex on your birth certificate and medical records? Who gives a toss what gender, if any, you claim to have?

The only people confusing sex and gender seem to be yourself and Doodledog.
The proposal some countries are considering is qute clear on both. A child would be entered as male or female in their medical records. Their birth certificate would have a space for their gender but this wouldn't be entered at birth. At some point when that person is happy and secure enough their chosen gender will be entered on their birth certificate. The information about their sex remains in medical records.
I would have thought all those who question gender identities would like this.

Some countries encourage the Gods to bestow health and success by smashing coconuts on the heads of those who ask for blessing.

That doesn't mean that I am confused about the sense of doing so.

Trisher, I would have thought all those who question gender identities would like this.
Yes you probably would have thought this.
That’s nice!??

Some countries encourage the Gods to bestow health and success by smashing coconuts on the heads of those who ask for blessing.

Well it makes as much sense as insisting that a person can change their biological sex.

Well we might as well re name everything, let’s call the Sun ,the Moon, & the stars could become planets , earth could be a super nova …..