Assigned female at birth

Do transmen really lose their braincells after transition? They'd answer ""Why? I'm a transman" . They'd have forgotten what they had changed from? That they had been observed to be female at birth, and still had female internal organs unless they'd had them surgically removed? My, who knew?

Rosie51

Do transmen really lose their braincells after transition? They'd answer ""Why? I'm a transman" . They'd have forgotten what they had changed from? That they had been observed to be female at birth, and still had female internal organs unless they'd had them surgically removed? My, who knew?

If someone has learning difficulties, language difficulties, a lack of anatomical knowledge that doesn't all disappear when they transition you know!

Well the obvious comment after that would probably be "Why? I'm a transman" answer ^You were assigned female at birth.
No. The answer is you are female. You were born female and you are still female.
Any reasonable person, male or female, who didn’t recognise the word cervix or cervical, would google it or call the clinic for clarification.
You still appear to be saying that transmen don’t know they are women. I think you do a disservice to transmen.

Learning difficulties - trisher are you really saying transmen with learning difficulties don’t know they are female?
How would they have known they wanted to assume a different gender?
Do transmen with severe learning difficulties not have support who would explain that to them?
You are not being ‘kind’.

trisher

Rosie51

Do transmen really lose their braincells after transition? They'd answer ""Why? I'm a transman" . They'd have forgotten what they had changed from? That they had been observed to be female at birth, and still had female internal organs unless they'd had them surgically removed? My, who knew?

If someone has learning difficulties, language difficulties, a lack of anatomical knowledge that doesn't all disappear when they transition you know!

How do they know that they're a transman if they didn't know they started as a woman?
Assigned yep that's a word on the lips of everyone with learning difficulties, language difficulties, and lack of anatomical knowledge. Do you think these transmen will be presenting themselves for prostate screening because "I'm a transman"?

Well the obvious comment after that would probably be "Why? I'm a transman" answer ^You were assigned female at birth.
Meanwhile, down the rabbit hole. . . .

So, now we have the confused transman asking why a smear is needed? Ok, who is being asked? Why can't they just answer, and clear up the 'issue'?

The letter could still just say 'You are invited to come in for a smear', just as it did before this transman transitioned - or does transitioning remove the memory too?

So let's get this straight (I do love these complex and illogical restrictions introduced to try and justify the unjustifiable). Women can need all sorts of support because of learning difficulties, language problems, lack of education etc. But transmen can't.
The test by the way is no longer a smear.
If assigned is a difficult word let's have called or named, what's in a word.

trisher

So let's get this straight (I do love these complex and illogical restrictions introduced to try and justify the unjustifiable). Women can need all sorts of support because of learning difficulties, language problems, lack of education etc. But transmen can't.
The test by the way is no longer a smear.
If assigned is a difficult word let's have called or named, what's in a word.

No, you are the one who brought in learning difficulties and so on. Your attempts to make this seem discriminatory are ludicrous, really.

I am quite happy to leave things with 'you are invited to come in for a smear test' (leaving out the nonsense about 'assigned at birth') and allowing any questions that might be asked to be answered as they crop up. I do not see how that is discriminatory at all, and as you have come up with nothing to explain how it might be, I can only assume that neither do you.

Great post Doodledog

Doodledog

trisher

So let's get this straight (I do love these complex and illogical restrictions introduced to try and justify the unjustifiable). Women can need all sorts of support because of learning difficulties, language problems, lack of education etc. But transmen can't.
The test by the way is no longer a smear.
If assigned is a difficult word let's have called or named, what's in a word.

No, you are the one who brought in learning difficulties and so on. Your attempts to make this seem discriminatory are ludicrous, really.

I am quite happy to leave things with 'you are invited to come in for a smear test' (leaving out the nonsense about 'assigned at birth') and allowing any questions that might be asked to be answered as they crop up. I do not see how that is discriminatory at all, and as you have come up with nothing to explain how it might be, I can only assume that neither do you.

Doodledog I didn't bring those things into the debate ,you did.
Yesterday
So you seriously think that 'woman' (or just 'please come along for a smear test') would put off transmen, but 'as you have been assigned female at birth' wouldn't make at least be incomprehensible to some women, who would assume that this didn't apply to them?

If you are including those with a learning disability, those in AHDs (particularly if they have low levels of educational attainment) and those from ethnic minorities where levels of English are low, then I think it's a given that a lot of women will be baffled by what is a clumsy phrase at best, and Doublespeak at worst

What ever happened to common sense .

Doodledog I didn't bring those things into the debate ,you did.

And an hour earlier, you said that you had looked up those who were not being reached by the screening programme and came up with:

those aged 25–29 and those above 50
those living in areas of high deprivation
those with a learning or physical disability
ethnic minority communities – note disparity varies by ethnic minority group
lesbian and people who are bisexual (1)
the transgender community

I responded to that list, which, as I say, you brought up. I am of the opinion that there is no need to embellish the invitation at all.

Still unanswered trisher, so I’m posting again. I’m not really a Charles Dickens fan so I don’t have Great Expectations.
Mollygo
Learning difficulties - trisher are you really saying transmen with learning difficulties don’t know they are female?
How would they have known they wanted to assume a different gender?
Do transmen with severe learning difficulties not have support who would explain that to them?
You are not being ‘kind

Mollygo

Still unanswered trisher, so I’m posting again. I’m not really a Charles Dickens fan so I don’t have Great Expectations.
Mollygo
Learning difficulties - trisher are you really saying transmen with learning difficulties don’t know they are female?
How would they have known they wanted to assume a different gender?
Do transmen with severe learning difficulties not have support who would explain that to them?
You are not being ‘kind

I don't mind discussions when people actually acknowledge their statements. Once they start trying to shift the blame and not recognise their own statements it's all a bit useless really .I posted that list in response to an earlier link.
But if some women are baffled then so will some transmen

That’s not an answer.
Are you really saying that transmen with learning difficulties don’t know they are female?

I don't mind discussions when people actually acknowledge their statements. Once they start trying to shift the blame and not recognise their own statements it's all a bit useless really .I posted that list in response to an earlier link.

If that is a dig at me, I cba to go back (again) to find the source of the discussion, but I do know that I do not think that there is any need to add the reason for the smear invitation as being because of an assignment at birth. There is no need to say anything at all - the invitation will do. If anything I posted has been taken otherwise, it is a misunderstanding. I am not blame-shifting, or anything similar - that's not my style.

Doodledog It is no longer a smear test. It's called a colposcopy and involves looking at the cervix. Both of which might be difficult to undersand on an invite.

trisher

Doodledog It is no longer a smear test. It's called a colposcopy and involves looking at the cervix. Both of which might be difficult to undersand on an invite.

Is that truly the best you have? ??? Using a precise medical term for what the vast majority of people understand as a smear test?
Cervix? A word of which people might not readily know the precise location and identity? And yet women can be referred to as 'cervix havers'? You really do want it every which way!

That’s nice trisher.
Is that truly the best you have? ??? Using a precise medical term for what the vast majority of people understand as a smear test?

But it isn't a "smear" test. That was what they used to do. Now they have a look. So how would inviting someone for a smear test be OK? You couldn't do it, it would be medically inaccurate. You could say "come and have your cervix inspected" "or come for a colposcopy" but not "you are invited for a smear"

That’s nice trisher???

trisher

But it isn't a "smear" test. That was what they used to do. Now they have a look. So how would inviting someone for a smear test be OK? You couldn't do it, it would be medically inaccurate. You could say "come and have your cervix inspected" "or come for a colposcopy" but not "you are invited for a smear"

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! Check out NHS website. A colposcopy is a procedure done after a smear test has detected abnormal cells. Or if you know better perhaps you should advise NHS they are inviting women to something they no longer provide. Your accuracy of evidence has been questioned by others on other threads, this just confirms it.

From the NHS website.
A colposcopy is a simple procedure used to look at the cervix, the lower part of the womb at the top of the vagina. It's often done if cervical screening finds abnormal cells in your cervix.

These cells often go away on their own, but sometimes there's a risk they could eventually turn into cervical cancer if not treated.

A colposcopy can confirm whether cells in your cervix are abnormal and determine whether you need treatment to remove them.

When a colposcopy may be needed

You may be referred for a colposcopy within a few weeks of cervical screening if:

some of the cells in your screening sample are abnormal
the nurse or doctor who carried out the screening test thought your cervix did not look as healthy as it should
it was not possible to give you a clear result after several screening tests

Thanks Rosie51,
you’ll have educated at least two of us with that and I at least am grateful for the clarification.

Oh I fully apologise but it just shows how anyone with a quick Google can get it wrong and the colposcopy is what comes up if you google tests for cervical cancer. Which means that actually the more information the better. So by all means put "You are invited for a smear test" but add something about a cervix or birth gender or even birth sex. It's just inclusive and informative and it helps. Little drawings might be a good idea as well.

trisher

Oh I fully apologise but it just shows how anyone with a quick Google can get it wrong and the colposcopy is what comes up if you google tests for cervical cancer. Which means that actually the more information the better. So by all means put "You are invited for a smear test" but add something about a cervix or birth gender or even birth sex. It's just inclusive and informative and it helps. Little drawings might be a good idea as well.

What it shows trisher is that in your desperation to justify your objection to 'you are invited for a smear test' you grabbed at what you thought was a big gotcha. Women's health is secondary to your promotion of what you call 'inclusive language'. If you're going to lecture and educate you should be doing more than a quick google and then presenting it as argument for your bias.