Assigned female at birth

Galaxy

What language is it that you would like to control VS?

Where does she say that?

Mn terrifies some men because its mostly women talking to other women, they hate it so they slag it off. MN has always been a target for that kind of thing particularly as it provides a space for women who have been abused by men to seek information. They also get very cross when women discus the issue of prostitution. I cant imagine why.

VS said many more platforms werent allowing language allowed here. I wondered which language was the problem.

I had awful, sexualised hate type messages when i posted on mn so left. I have worked with men as well, I know what a lot of them are like when they are all together
I know this is unpopular
I have many sons but they wouldn't speak or behave like that i hope and if they do, they are tossers as well

Sorry that happened Jane. That sounds horrible.

That's not good JaneJudge; sorry you experienced that there.
I too would like to know what kind of language on here should be controlled Galaxy. This subject is all about "control" afterall so it would be good to know.

I think Justine is incredibly brave and I often defend decisions/monitors on GN because MN have absolutely stuck their neck out for womens rights, often under enormous pressure, so I have a lot of time for them.

Absolutely agree with that Galaxy; JR has come in for a lot of stick in the past but has resolutely given women a place to discuss feminist issues with very light moderation. I suppose the answer would be, if people find that her platform allows a language or discourse that they find unpalatable, it's probably not the platform for them.

At 19:55 I said that people aren't realising that their words in these discussions are having an impact. Crimes against trans people have quadrupled since discussions began.

No one challenged that.

Then I say that many platforms have banned some of the language here by disallowing language that incites violence or hate speech.

Everyone pulls that up.

If you can't see it after thread after thread of myself, GagaJo, trisher and many others who just couldn't continue pointing that out, I don't think it's possible to explain it.

If you embolden each other to call us names. Like myself personally, called stupid, abusive, gaslighting, passive aggressive and goodness knows what else I've thankfully forgotten that just isn't true... You just are assigning tone and meaning to me that isn't there...

Imagine the impact you are having in this debate.

Reddit has banned the Gender Critical forum rightfully for that reason. As have other platforms.

VioletSky twice (at least) on these “trans” threads, you’ve said that violence/crimes against trans people is/are on the rise. The only violence that I’ve seen mentioned in all these threads had been committed by trans activists against women. So can you provide proof of this statement? I did ask you this on another thread but never received an answer.

VioletSky I’ve challenged it, see my previous post, please provide proof of this “quadrupled” increase.

The last legal case classified GC belief it as a protected belief so am not sure what to say about that. Are you saying there is language on MN or GN that incites violence that is allowed to stand? I am just not clear if thats what you mean.

grannydarkhair

VioletSky twice (at least) on these “trans” threads, you’ve said that violence/crimes against trans people is/are on the rise. The only violence that I’ve seen mentioned in all these threads had been committed by trans activists against women. So can you provide proof of this statement? I did ask you this on another thread but never received an answer.

I've posted news articles and video. No one opened the link or commented on it. That's not my fault

Everyone = 2

VioletSky I haven’t seen your links, can you remember which thread they were on?

Violence at violence against women march thread is the most recent I remember

Or you can look for yourself at where this started in 2016 when I think it was Theresa May who first announced big changes. And the growth in hate crime since. Which has ramped up in line with discussion.

Baring in mind that it is only reported crime that shows this increase. Many trans people are afraid to report crimes because they don't feel the police are immune to public feeling and don't think they will be helped. Or, they have reported things in the past and not been helped.

This is a very serious issue

Google has a wealth of information if you Google "rise in hate crimes against trans people".

The video I posted you will find. One of those interviewed was raped so it's quite upsetting

Sorry I need to ask this again. Are you saying there are posts on MN and GN that incite violence that are allowdd to stand.

I am still here sorry I have not posted anymore also overwhelmed

Just for anyone reading. I believe you cant change sex. I believe that women are entitled to single sex spaces (and Womens Aid today agree with me) and I am concerned about the treatment provided to young people with gender dysphoria which appears from the latest reports and inspection results to be wholly inadequate. I assume none of these viewpoints are considered to incire violence.

galaxy were you to enter a ladies toilet and find yourself standing next to someone who you felt were trans, would you ask them to leave?

You havent answered my question VS. But I will answer yours. If there was a man in a woman space, no I wouldnt challenge them.

VioletSky The violence at the VAW march was committed by trans activists against women.
And whilst that BBC article refers to actual violence, many transphobic hate crime reports are just that, reports. Reports that waste countless hours of police activity. Many GC women (and men), gays and lesbians have been reported to the police for supposed violence, eg Marion Millar for her ribbons, the woman with the stickers in Bath/Bristol?, Ceri Black for comments on Twitter about paedophiles, Graham Linehan for virtually anything that he does or say.
Do any of those compare to the number of women who have been murdered in the UK since 2016?

grannydarkhair I admire your perseverance in trying to get answers, especially considering the risk.

Galaxy

Just for anyone reading. I believe you can’t change sex. I believe that women are entitled to single sex spaces (and Womens Aid today agree with me) and I am concerned about the treatment provided to young people with gender dysphoria which appears from the latest reports and inspection results to be wholly inadequate. I assume none of these viewpoints are considered to incite violence.

Galaxy I’m with you on all those points.
Good of you to answer about challenging a man in a woman’s space. I’ll take it one stage further. I wouldn’t challenge him because I believe that males who deliberately invade spaces intended for females have no good reason for being there, though I can already feel the rush of ‘would you?’ questions and ‘what if? excuses being composed.
Would I report him? Yes I would and if I could surreptitiously obtain a photo I would add that to my report.

The fact that demands by some TW and TWA continue to try and deny safe spaces for females including female toilets is appalling. Males are not females. I’m happy to tell the truth but I’m bitterly disappointed and appalled that some of the people trying to perpetrate the lie that TWAW , or twist vocabulary to try and validate their claims are actually females themselves.

Regarding the inadequate and potentially dangerous treatment of young people who may or have gender dysphoria is providing growing employment in for those able to help, in a medical or legal rôle, the increasing number of young or older people who have found that the treatment didn’t solve their problems and even ruined their future lives.
The need for an increasing number of workers in this field is not something to be proud of.

Galaxy

You havent answered my question VS. But I will answer yours. If there was a man in a woman space, no I wouldnt challenge them.

I am answering, I wanted to get my thoughts in order.

You wouldnt challenge them.

Yet many on these threads have stated they do not want trans women in women's toilets.

Gender reassignment is now a protected characteristic under the equality act. It is illegal to discriminate directly or indirectly.

Trans women have been verbally abused, spat at and attacked using the toilet that aligns with their gender which is direct discrimination.

Trans women have been told they cannot use the toilets that align with their gender in businesses and venues which is indirect discrimination.

Social media does not have toilets but some social media has decided as a business, and out of respect to all their users, they won't allow an entire forum or topic that states "I don't want this person in this space" as they view this as indirect discrimination.

They also view this as incitement to violence or hate speech because their toilets may be metaphorical but one person's "I don't want you in this space" emboldens another's verbal attack, push, punch, spit... Etc.

Perhaps you truly do not see that what is said on these discussions could possibly lead to someone else feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive but words have power and its been shown this is the case throughout history.

This is the simplest example I could think of.

The equality act allows for spaces to be single sex and for in cases where is deemed necessary for men to be excluded. This is not discrimination. Sex is a protected characteristic under the equality act.
Womens Aid for example have just stated their commitment in certain circumstances to single sex spaces. Is that an example of incitement or hate speech.