Assigned female at birth

I do believe that the violent words used by protesters at the VAW March could incite others to actual physical violence or lead to someone else feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
That has been proven true. Every time groups like VAW or WWW have a meeting or even a peaceful protest, the TRAs and hangers on, turn up and use the sort of violent words mentioned above, which could possibly, and frequently do, lead to someone in the objecting group feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
It’s not often I want to congratulate a poster on their choice of words, but the emboldened text above describes exactly the behaviour of TRAs, their hangers on and some TW.

Galaxy

The equality act allows for spaces to be single sex and for in cases where is deemed necessary for men to be excluded. This is not discrimination. Sex is a protected characteristic under the equality act.
Womens Aid for example have just stated their commitment in certain circumstances to single sex spaces. Is that an example of incitement or hate speech.

No it's an example of an objective need on an individual basis. Which doesn't apply in all circumstances as the equality act lays out.

As you continie to call trans women men though I'm not comfortable continuing this discussion with you

Thats fine VS. I dont think peope can change sex. I have always been really clear on that.

Mollygo

I do believe that the violent words used by protesters at the VAW March could incite others to actual physical violence or lead to someone else feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
That has been proven true. Every time groups like VAW or WWW have a meeting or even a peaceful protest, the TRAs and hangers on, turn up and use the sort of violent words mentioned above, which could possibly, and frequently do, lead to someone in the objecting group feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
It’s not often I want to congratulate a poster on their choice of words, but the emboldened text above describes exactly the behaviour of TRAs, their hangers on and some TW.

This is why talking to you guys is just wasting time that matters to me.

I know this. You aren't making a point. Every trans ally prominent in these threads have denounced this kind of violence.

I have previously explained I take a moderate stance to not embolden that sort of behaviour.

I also know that average everyday trans people are not responsible for this.

As much as I can see this just shoots yourself in the foot because you don't actually listen to what is said. You can't and I have no need to continually watch people shoot themselves in the foot and I'd rather go to bed.

That’s nice. Sleep well.

Anyone who imagines men have "handed over" women's sport is really unaware of what is really happening and who controls sport. It certainly isn't women.

I didn't say that men had 'handed over' women's sport. I said that women had fought for the right to compete and exist separately where biology matters and together with men where it doesn't. I specifically said 'not just sport' - how much clearer can I make it, but still, I get misquoted so that I can be disparaged.

As for silencing it isn't one sided any more than abuse is. You only have to read these threads to realise that.
I haven't silenced anyone. I don't think that I have been abusive either. I have said that IMO there is a definite misogyny underpinning a lot of what goes on in the name of TRA, and I believe that to be true. If you want to extrapolate from that that I think you are a misogynist, I can't help that, but I do try to be as measured as I can, even when I am being accused of saying things that I haven't (see above), and misunderstood in ways that seem wilful.

You have, of course, ignored the rest of the post you quoted, as that dealt with the way that TRAs are commandeering the language, so that before long not only will women not be able to be together without male-bodied people, they won't even be able to discuss female issues, as the vocabulary will be gone. You ignored that to concentrate on misquoting me to suggest that I think that men have 'given away' sport (which doesn't even make sense) and that I am capable of silencing others and abusing them. I'm really not.

Please don't misrepresent me like this. It's tiresome, and prevents the discussion from moving on when I have to keep returning to set the record straight.

As much as I can see this just shoots yourself in the foot because you don't actually listen to what is said. You can't and I have no need to continually watch people shoot themselves in the foot and I'd rather go to bed.
Some of posters have the knack of saying exactly what their own posts appear to do to those who read them. Thank you for proving that. You saved me a job..

That's just a long winded way of saying

"no you are"

We aren't 5.

If any of what I said last night made you think a little bit about why the way things are being discussed matters..

Or if you can just for a moment understand that trans people are scared to go to the toilet and how that's a massive problem for other human beings

That would at least be something

Or if you can just for a moment understand that trans people are scared to go to the toilet and how that's a massive problem for other human beings
Reference to statistics?
Proof?
Your opinion?

Galaxy

Sorry that happened Jane. That sounds horrible.

the thread was quickly deleted for what it is worth but it was horrible. I doubt it is unique to MN having seen what is posted on facebook in plain view

There are many women scared to use refuges, for example. I am going to continue talking about single sex provision.

Mollygo

Or if you can just for a moment understand that trans people are scared to go to the toilet and how that's a massive problem for other human beings
Reference to statistics?
Proof?
Your opinion?

Or you could prove me wrong

Would you believe a woman saying it?

inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787

As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.

And as many on here have said toilets can generally be easily solved, other single sex provision not so much.

Galaxy

As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.

Yes, and for the millionth time- it is not a clash between the rights of genuine transwomen and women’s rights. Not on the whole. It is a clash between the rights that women have fought for and the agenda of misogynistic TRAs, who want to remove those rights and don’t care that transpeople are caught in the crossfire.

Transpeople are also victims in all this.

Doodledog

Galaxy

As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.

Yes, and for the millionth time- it is not a clash between the rights of genuine transwomen and women’s rights. Not on the whole. It is a clash between the rights that women have fought for and the agenda of misogynistic TRAs, who want to remove those rights and don’t care that transpeople are caught in the crossfire.

Transpeople are also victims in all this.

Returning to this thread after a break (lemsips and sleep)
My energy levels are low so forgive me for quoting Galaxy and Doodledog. It’s like Ground Hog day.

Doodledog
Galaxy
As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.
Yes, and for the millionth time- it is not a clash between the rights of genuine transwomen and women’s rights. Not on the whole. It is a clash between the rights that women have fought for and the agenda of misogynistic TRAs, who want to remove those rights and don’t care that transpeople are caught in the crossfire.

Transpeople are also victims in all this.
Returning to this thread after a break (lemsips and sleep)
My energy levels are low so forgive me for quoting Galaxy and Doodledog. It’s like Ground Hog day.

Sadly yes.

At the Women's Place meeting in Manchester last night, the voices of the speakers were drowned out by a large crowd of noisy, aggressive and verbally violent transactivists. 2 of the guest speakers were Maggy Mono, an African asylum seeker who wanted to tell her experience of the horrors of FGM and forced abortions that were visited on her fellow women in the name of "culture". And why single sex 'safe space' is vital for those women. Another speaker was Judith Green, a female survivor of childhood sexual abuse. Their voices were drowned out by screams, chants and shouts of "GET THE TERFS OUT! YOU'RE A BUNCH OF WANKERS!"

All those women wanted to do was to hold a peaceful meeting, to discuss their experiences of the abuse and harm that has been done to them, and why they had been forced to flee their homes in order to save their lives. But they weren't allowed to do that. Because a significant number of transactivists decided to silence them, shut them down, cancel them out. Such was the sheer number and aggression of protesters, the police had to be called to protect the women inside and to provide them with a safe escort when they wanted to leave.

No doubt "someone" will trot along shortly to point out that "it's only a minority of trans who behave in this way; the majority just want to live their lives in peace". I have no doubt that is true. But women just want to live their lives in peace too; some of those women had fled half way around the world to find their peace. But they learnt last night that the transactivists lobby won't allow them to speak; they are not alliwed a voice, they cannot speak of their experiences as women. They won't allow any woman to speak. So, this morning, I'm so angry about it all that, quite frankly, I don't give a rats ass where they go to the toilets; that's the least of our worries. I'm far more worried that ordinary, and extraordinary women, are being told SHUT UP, MOVE OVER, MAKE ROOM. And worst of all "be **ing kind".

It is, and then we get accused of posting ’same old, same old’.

I’ve said it before, but it’s a simple enough situation- there’s really not much different to be said. Just increasing numbers of examples, and a need to refute libellous accusations and blatant inaccuracies and twisted words.

Cross posted, Chewbacca. Yours was a powerful post that shows how indefensible support for the violence of TRAs can be. It doesn’t have to be physical violence - punches don’t have to be thrown for acts to be frightening and intimidating. Shouting women down is violent and, as we keep seeing, is not uncommon.

Hundreds of people marched through Manchester city centre on Thursday night in a transphobia protest. The protest, organised by members of the Manchester Trans Rise Up group, was arranged to coincide with a conference being held by Woman's Place UK, ^a feminist group focused on women’s sex-based rights and protections in the UK. They allege some of the viewpoints shared by Woman's Place UK are ‘transphobic’ due to its campaigning for ‘single-sex’ spaces.

“We believe Woman's Place UK is trying to make women-only spaces that exclude the existence of trans women. We feel that it’s important to stand up against that.”

No doubt "someone" will trot along shortly to point out that "it's only a minority of trans who behave in this way.”

Would “someone” use that excuse and say its only a minority of police who murder women, it’s only a minority of teachers who have inappropriate relationships with pupils? . . . Apart from the the evils of the acts themselves, the damage they do to the reputation of other members of the police or teaching profession is immense. As is the damage done to females and the reputation of transpeople by this ‘minority’ of trans and the vociferous supporters of this ‘minority’.

*Returning to this thread after a break (lemsips and sleep)
My energy levels are low so forgive me for quoting Galaxy and Doodledog. It’s like Ground Hog day.*

I hope you get better soon, Iam. It must have been a stinker of a cold.

I’m sick of women being murdered , 2 a week by men. Sick of transactivists behaving like violent, controlling, oppressive men.

I’m sure I’ve been told by “someone” that we wouldn’t know some TW aren’t women and that they have been accessing female spaces for ages.
Why then would we know that some TW accessing female spaces aren’t really female?

Because there are those who make it quite obvious that they are claiming to be TW for purposes other than a desire to be a different gender.

Those like the tw!! on the women’s ward, in a mental health facility, parading round with everything on show in a ward of already traumatised women and announcing that any attempt to remove him would mean the staff were transphobic!
I suspect “someones” might support his claim.

Those like Liar Thomas, who not only cheated in sport but demonstrated he was a male in the female changing rooms.

Why would Woman’s Place UK want female only spaces? See above.

If only these TRAs in the baying mob, would turn their attention to supporting genuine trans by showing that they too reject the behaviour of the ‘minority’ of TW!!s, it would benefit not only AHF women but also genuine transwomen.

But it would take better brains than those in the baying mob to realise that.