Assigned female at birth

Made an exceptuon

Yeah, one of those as well.

Ah bless you. You're desperate to have the last word ! Go on then I'l give you that !
That's a kind smile!

I saw a very obviously trans woman yesterday. Not tall and awkward looking but dressed and made up in very poor taste. Completely OTT. Looked like someone from an old Dick Emery or Les Dawson sketch. A sad sight really.

I'm sure she was devasted that you didn't think she was attractive Aveline.

She wouldn't care. Just clacked past me in stilettos. Looked like a stage costume and lashes of make up. Really stood out among the pale faces standing about waiting for a bus.

Jeezy peeps.

Another here who doesn't want to get on the merry go round of trans argument again but....... I wonder if those who can see no harm in inviting Those who were assigned female at birth to attend for cervical screening, can explain why it's apparently not necessary to include the words Those who were assigned male at birth on prostate cancer checks for men?

volver my point was to say that not all transwomen are hulking great brutes but can draw attention to themselves in other ways.
My previous experience was with a tall, muscly transwomen with a perm like the Queen, 1960s make up and huge court shoes. A nice person but needing some style tips - a bit like the person I saw yesterday.

Meanwhile whilst we quibble Russia is bombing the hell out of Ukraine

What kind of argument is that 25Avalon? Shall we delete all the threads that aren't about Ukraine, so that we're not distracted?

Rosie51

This is just a sample.

"Bleeders" so nice, so inclusive.

For those unaware Herstory was developed because women were frequently omitted from history. Ironic eh?

JKR is the devil incarnate and her objectors are so rational. This was the most inoffensive post I could find.

Saw this on Mumsnet.
My first thought was that ‘bleeders’ was traditionally used in quite a different sense!
‘Look what that little bleeder been and gorn and done now!’

Oh, and Doodledog - how is sex "endemic"? That's new.
It not, of course - I meant innate. As I’m sure you could deduce from the context.

You know, I thought your thread yesterday was disingenuous - it seems I was right.

Actually I thought you meant intrinsic, but it's the same thing, I guess.

I can't help it if you think my thread from yesterday was disingenuous, but it wasn't. I've never commented on a trans thread before and now that I know a bit more about it I might start. What have I learnt? That in fact I wasn't missing out on any deep philosophical point, but that lots of people are scared and prejudiced against people that are not like them.

but that lots of people are scared and prejudiced against people that are not like them.
Works both ways. You could equally mean the men and trans people who are scared and prejudiced against people who are not like them.

VioletSky

I don't think I'd be very secure as a woman if an advertising slogan made me feel reduced in any way.

They are free to advertise as they wish, whether they are successful or not is all the feedback they need.

TBH, I was more offended by the idea period blood could be represented by blue water as if red was something to be ashamed of.

Or the thought that we'd all be off rollerblading in white trousers if we just used the right kind of sanitary towel.

That advertising for you, mostly silly

Advertising often reinforces stereotypes, or did. A look back at some of the ads from the 40s / 50s will show that.

Does it matter? Well, if some bigoted individual has his or her fears and insecurities confirmed and pandered to by certain adverts, then to some of us, it does matter.

As a teenager, I used to be intensely irritated by ads depicting women dressed in high-heels and pretty dresses covered by a pristine apron, smilingly stirring pots on the stove as her husband came through the door with briefcase and bowler.

Why did it bother me? Because I was an ambitious female who met prejudice in the workplace based on that fact alone. A woman's place is in the home and kitchen was very much a commonplace idea when I was growing up.

Advertising might be "silly" - but it works - hence all the pop-ups on any site you visit on the 'net, and in newspapers - whether at a subliminal level or otherwise.

Those ads from the 50s have all but disappeared, because they have been challenged. Not by 'insecure' women, but by women (and some men) who viewed them as patronising and objectifying.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing, so why did you ask me to clarify?

For someone who hadn’t thought about it before you seem bang up to speed all of a sudden. Fair enough - it’s not complicated, which is why I was surprised that you needed to ask. There have been threads on the topic for ages. You must have read them - even to have decided they were not for you, so it seemed odd that you wanted the basics explained.

Any comments about the SNP position? It’s a bit of a political hot potato, as you may be noticing now your interest is piqued.

Everything is of its time, everything slowly evolves .
We are all children of our ‘particular’ time.

Doodledog

Yeah, pretty much the same thing, so why did you ask me to clarify?

For someone who hadn’t thought about it before you seem bang up to speed all of a sudden. Fair enough - it’s not complicated, which is why I was surprised that you needed to ask. There have been threads on the topic for ages. You must have read them - even to have decided they were not for you, so it seemed odd that you wanted the basics explained.

Any comments about the SNP position? It’s a bit of a political hot potato, as you may be noticing now your interest is piqued.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing, so why did you ask me to clarify?

To make a point.

For someone who hadn’t thought about it before you seem bang up to speed all of a sudden.

Because I'm clever. But I thought that since people were so angry about it I must be missing something. I wasn't.

Haven't decided about the SNP position yet. I'm thinking about it.

lots of people are scared and prejudiced against people that are not like them.

Which has given rise to stereotypes, and to some people feeling that their need not to fit with the stereotype usually associated with their sex means they are not that sex - and so they claim to be the opposite sex or to be no sex at all (non-binary).

Why can't society just loosen off on the stereotypes instead of claiming that biological sex means nothing?

JaneJudge

Dickens

pinkprincess

One of my granddaughters, who is in her early twenties has just had a letter rom the NHS inviting her to go for a cervical smear test ''because she was assigned female at birth''
AIBU to suggest this is PC going too far?

If this is the standard letter sent out by the NHS - why don't they invite for a "cervical smear test", based on the simple fact that the invitee has a cervix? I can't see the need to qualify that with any other reason.

Unfortunately a lot of women wont know they have a cervix or what a cervix is.

If they don't know they have a cervix or what it is, they are unlikely to understand what a smear test is or whey they need it.

If there are that many individuals who really don't know what a cervix is, then a simple explanation of the test, with a diagram - might be more helpful than including the "assigned female at birth" statement.

I think in the days of realising that trans people are a larger demographic than we first thought and that they need different language and different support to women... Mistakes are going to be made.

Where a large part of the om unity is struggling to accept trans people, that acceptance might sometimes be a bit overzealous...

It will all settle down in time

Jazz Jennings reading his book 'I Am Jazz'
youtu.be/BF5D2lsPfsU

Kai Shappley - trans at 4 years old
youtu.be/cuIkLNsRtas

Susie Green Mermaids CEO - TedTalk
www.ted.com/talks/susie_green_transgender_a_mother_s_story

These are accounts of 'trans children' from themselves and parents.
If someone can explain to me how these accounts don't show that stereotypes are the basis of the whole thing, I'll be very surprised.

different support to women but the demand is to be included as women, as female, in every possible situation.

Trans people aren't to blame for stereotypes either. They exist in every society.

They are changing and evolving

Many parents are deliberately bringing up their bildren to be no gender conforming

Perhaps if trans people still exist in a non gender conforming society, if they still want to have the physical appearance of the opposite sex, then people will start to believe them