Trans Teacher

Agreed. Sexuality, 'gender' and sex are separate things.

Can you please explain about the boy you mentioned upthread though? Why would thinking about wearing a skirt make him think he was 'in the wrong gender' and what does that mean?

Also, if wearing a skirt (or considering doing so) is a sign of gender confusion, doesn't that reinforce the case that the teacher is contributing to the chances of children being confused by wearing it to school?

Glorianny

Dickens

Mama2020

As long as it's appropriate work attire comparable to what is standard teacher attire, I don't see what the issue is. Teacher isn't engaging in sex in front of the children, so I don't understand the comments about sexuality. I see others saying it's fine to be trans, but it has to be kept behind closed doors. Why, exactly? In what way does a skirt harm the children? My only concern would be whether this person is a good teacher.

In what way does a skirt harm the children?

The short answer is of course (as you well understand) - it doesn't.

The reality is a bit more complex. There are those - on here and in the wider public - who are sceptical, critical and worried, about the way in which transgender 'doctrine' is being promoted to children, some of whom are quite young and uninformed about the complexities of adult-life. We are not all on-board with Stonewall's ideology when it is applied to children whose mental health may well be in turmoil because of various complex reasons that are not all connected to gender-identity. There are many dynamics in children's family backgrounds that can cause problems for young children; divorce, ill-health of parents, drug-dependency, financial impoverishment, over-crowding, sibling-rivalry, parental neglect, etc, etc.

To the accusations of "transphobia" we are questioning whether it would be more appropriate to examine a child's background and its family history before assuming that it is suffering from a personal gender-identity crisis, or that the kid is "in the wrong body".

So in that context the skirt becomes something more than a harmless piece of clothing. In an environment where male teachers conventionally wear trousers, one who decides to wear a skirt instead is making a point. A point about his sexuality in a classroom where the focus should be on the children and not on him.

So if he openly states he is a healthy heterosexual male who likes skirts would that be OK?
A man wearing a skirt gives you no idea at all about his sexuality. He may be gay, he may be bi, he may even be hetero.
Sexuality is nothing to do with skirt wearing (Just like wearing make up for Bowie etc was nothing to do with their sexuality) Honestly I thought we'd got past all this stuff.

I think you know full well that I am making a point about what I and others see as an insidious drive towards persuading very young children who may well be experiencing mental health problems for diverse reasons - which they might not have the ability to process critically - that they are suffering an identity crisis.

In that context I am critical of the teacher - whether he's gay / bi / hetero, is irrelevant... he's drawing attention to himself. The majority of adult human males do not wear skirts here in the UK - whether this is an injustice in the 'department' of what an individual is allowed or expected to wear to work is a separate issue - the crux is (if it is indeed a true 'story'), he is a Mr Man making a point relating to his sexuality and / or gender. Whatever it might be.

Unless he waltzed into the classroom and said, 'hi class, I thought I'd wear a skirt today just for the LOLS and the heck of it'.

And if skirt-wearing is nothing to do with sexuality - why don't we see hetero men walking around in them? Because in general, they don't. Quoting Bowie and Beckham is irrelevant - the world of fashion and entertainment is a law unto itself and I think most people expect the boundaries to be pushed against in that climate.

Dickens

Glorianny

Dickens

Mama2020

As long as it's appropriate work attire comparable to what is standard teacher attire, I don't see what the issue is. Teacher isn't engaging in sex in front of the children, so I don't understand the comments about sexuality. I see others saying it's fine to be trans, but it has to be kept behind closed doors. Why, exactly? In what way does a skirt harm the children? My only concern would be whether this person is a good teacher.

In what way does a skirt harm the children?

The short answer is of course (as you well understand) - it doesn't.

The reality is a bit more complex. There are those - on here and in the wider public - who are sceptical, critical and worried, about the way in which transgender 'doctrine' is being promoted to children, some of whom are quite young and uninformed about the complexities of adult-life. We are not all on-board with Stonewall's ideology when it is applied to children whose mental health may well be in turmoil because of various complex reasons that are not all connected to gender-identity. There are many dynamics in children's family backgrounds that can cause problems for young children; divorce, ill-health of parents, drug-dependency, financial impoverishment, over-crowding, sibling-rivalry, parental neglect, etc, etc.

To the accusations of "transphobia" we are questioning whether it would be more appropriate to examine a child's background and its family history before assuming that it is suffering from a personal gender-identity crisis, or that the kid is "in the wrong body".

So in that context the skirt becomes something more than a harmless piece of clothing. In an environment where male teachers conventionally wear trousers, one who decides to wear a skirt instead is making a point. A point about his sexuality in a classroom where the focus should be on the children and not on him.

So if he openly states he is a healthy heterosexual male who likes skirts would that be OK?
A man wearing a skirt gives you no idea at all about his sexuality. He may be gay, he may be bi, he may even be hetero.
Sexuality is nothing to do with skirt wearing (Just like wearing make up for Bowie etc was nothing to do with their sexuality) Honestly I thought we'd got past all this stuff.

I think you know full well that I am making a point about what I and others see as an insidious drive towards persuading very young children who may well be experiencing mental health problems for diverse reasons - which they might not have the ability to process critically - that they are suffering an identity crisis.

In that context I am critical of the teacher - whether he's gay / bi / hetero, is irrelevant... he's drawing attention to himself. The majority of adult human males do not wear skirts here in the UK - whether this is an injustice in the 'department' of what an individual is allowed or expected to wear to work is a separate issue - the crux is (if it is indeed a true 'story'), he is a Mr Man making a point relating to his sexuality and / or gender. Whatever it might be.

Unless he waltzed into the classroom and said, 'hi class, I thought I'd wear a skirt today just for the LOLS and the heck of it'.

And if skirt-wearing is nothing to do with sexuality - why don't we see hetero men walking around in them? Because in general, they don't. Quoting Bowie and Beckham is irrelevant - the world of fashion and entertainment is a law unto itself and I think most people expect the boundaries to be pushed against in that climate.

We don't see men in skirts for the same reason we don't see many women in skirts these days. They are more difficult to wear, may be OK in hot weather but at other times leave you with the real problem of what tights or leg coverings to wear, what shoes go and if it's a skirt what top to wear. Trousers are more convenient and more versatile.
Teacher's draw attention to themselves all the time, it's one way to make sure children listen. A teacher who fades into the background isn't doing the job.

Yes, Dickens - I made that point when I introduced Bowie upthread. He was trying to be famous and wanted to cause a stir, and he absolutely did flirt with the idea of being bisexual, for the media at least. His Ziggy Stardust performance with Mick Ronson was far from blokey heterosexual, and the lyrics of songs like Queen Bitch are very clearly gay/bisexual.

Beckham's sarong was a deliberate way to promote 'Brand Beckham', positioning them as fashionistas rather than 'just' a footballer and a singer with fading careers. Beckham is a gay icon (or was until he showed support for the Saudi regime), and his apparent 'metrosexuality' was a nod to his gay fanbase.

The teacher's sexuality is irrelevant, but as we all keep saying, wearing the skirt is not a neutral act, as Glorianny has conceded by saying that a boy who felt he might 'be in the wrong gender' could be influenced by it. I'm still hoping to find out the meaning of that phrase, and an explanation of how the teacher's clothing could impact on it, but I suspect I'll have a long wait.

Bowie was bi sexual. He famously replied when asked how he'd met his first wife Angie, that they were both dating the same man.

Jackiest

There was a time when a women wearing trousers would cause a stir but now it is quite normal. Sometimes a skirt is more comfortable and sometimes trousers. Men should also be allowed the choice of being able to wear what they find most comfortable.

Totally agree. If female teachers can wear trousers, then why shouldn't he be allowed to wear a skirt.

OurKid1

Jackiest

There was a time when a women wearing trousers would cause a stir but now it is quite normal. Sometimes a skirt is more comfortable and sometimes trousers. Men should also be allowed the choice of being able to wear what they find most comfortable.

Totally agree. If female teachers can wear trousers, then why shouldn't he be allowed to wear a skirt.

Have you read the thread, OurKid? There have been a lot of posts which address your question .

We haven't had any solid answers on why a man shouldn't wear a skirt. They have all been illogical

It is just an item of clothing

There is absolutely no way to state that this teacher is making any kind of political or social statement apart from "I like skirts".

The answers however that are against a man wearing a skirt are very biased towards to the commenters social and political beliefs...

Perhaps that is why those against it cannot accept that not everything is a political or social statement or even any of their business

We haven't had any solid answers on why a man shouldn't wear a skirt.

No-one has said that, have hey?
A man can wear a skirt if he wants to.

Just not at school teaching young, impressionable children.

they?

The answers however that are against a man wearing a skirt are very biased towards to the commenters social and political beliefs...

Of course they are, you banana! This is a discussion - people are going to discuss things in line with their beliefs. We are not posting as teachers who are supposed to be neutral - we are people who care about children, and who dislike the idea of their being manipulated by a dubious agenda. Those who disagree are also arguing a case in line with their own beliefs, which is entirely to be expected and absolutely as it should be - there would be no debate otherwise, would there?

My first thought had been a nice tweed and therefore, so what?
but reading tft has given me pause for thought.

The sauce for the gander comparison with women wearing trousers doesn't really stand up, for me.

In some jobs women really were forbidden to wear trousers at work. The reason the majority of those who fought to wear them did so was because trousers were just more practical in the particular jobs they were doing.
And yea, because "The Man" said they couldn't, that's human nature.

I find I would be much more inclined to support the skirt wearing male if there was some practical reason for doing so. I can't think of one but open to suggestions.

I can't think of one either, Ailidh. Shorts in the heat are a more practical alternative for either sex, and don't have the 'gendered' connotations of a skirt, and yes - the comparison with women wearing trousers was always a red herring.

We haven't had any solid answers on why a man should wear a skirt. They have all been illogical. 😁

I see glory has reached the conclusion I did several light years ago. Most people choose to wear trousers, warmer in winter, more practical for many day to day activities.
So - why would a male teacher choose to wear a skirt unless to make himself the centre of attention

VioletSky

We haven't had any solid answers on why a man shouldn't wear a skirt. They have all been illogical

It is just an item of clothing

There is absolutely no way to state that this teacher is making any kind of political or social statement apart from "I like skirts".

The answers however that are against a man wearing a skirt are very biased towards to the commenters social and political beliefs...

Perhaps that is why those against it cannot accept that not everything is a political or social statement or even any of their business

We haven't had any solid answers on why a man shouldn't wear a skirt.

In principle VS, no-one as far as I can see has said that a man shouldn't wear a skirt. What they and I are questioning is why a teacher who apparently identifies as a man has chosen to wear one in a classroom full of children at an impressionable age who will, mostly, notice and question it in an environment where men, usually, wear trousers; and at a time when children are being encouraged en masse to question their gender-identity.

They have all been illogical

How? They might not fit your world-view, but that doesn't make them illogical.

There is absolutely no way to state that this teacher is making any kind of political or social statement apart from "I like skirts".

When people go against the grain of convention, they are making a point. To pretend that a teacher is so unaware that he would wear a skirt in a room full of kids just because he "likes skirts" is naive.

Perhaps that is why those against it cannot accept that not everything is a political or social statement or even any of their business

Many, if not most, of those on GN have grandchildren either in school already or about to attend. And they - we - are well aware of the agenda which is encouraging them to question their gender-identity. You may go along with this, but we are not quite so happy about it and when a teacher appears to be part of that agenda - then we have every right to question his motives. Schools policies affect our grandchildren - it is our business.

Iam64

I see glory has reached the conclusion I did several light years ago. Most people choose to wear trousers, warmer in winter, more practical for many day to day activities.
So - why would a male teacher choose to wear a skirt unless to make himself the centre of attention

Well he succeeded didn’t he. I’m so glad all men aren’t so attention seeking.

Ailidh

I find I would be much more inclined to support the skirt wearing male if there was some practical reason for doing so.

This.

VioletSky

We haven't had any solid answers on why a man shouldn't wear a skirt. They have all been illogical

It is just an item of clothing

There is absolutely no way to state that this teacher is making any kind of political or social statement apart from "I like skirts".

The answers however that are against a man wearing a skirt are very biased towards to the commenters social and political beliefs...

Perhaps that is why those against it cannot accept that not everything is a political or social statement or even any of their business

''I like wearing skirts because, I have a sexual fetish.
I can only get an erection or any sexual satisfaction from wearing womens clothing in public.
There is an added thrill from flouting the norms and forcing people, especially children to look at me''

If I put it this way, does the wearing of a skirt change the idea that it is a political or societal argument for anyone?

tin hat on

Namsnanny, We none of us know what his reasoning, but if only one of your points is true, he’s considering himself before the children.

... he's considering himself before the children ....

I can't see it any other way than the above sentence, tbh.

Obviously we can never know, and can only speculate.

Tin foil hat Namsnanny?

I've got skirts and dresses I like and trousers I like. It is amusing that people would think a man flashing his legs in shorts is more acceptable than a man wearing a quite respectable skirt. I don't wear shorts because my legs are a bit old looking. A man might feel his legs should be covered but like the coolness a skirt can give.

He might.

Now can you please tell me what you meant about a boy thinking he may be 'in the wrong gender', and how the teacher's skirt could help him with that?

I don't know what being 'in the wrong gender' means, and if the skirt represents nothing outside itself then how could it make the slightest difference to a confused child?

TIA.