Trans Teacher

Might ponder a bit on the behaviour of people online who think they are hilarious bullies winning the internet but are actually about as scary and upsetting as an egg and cress sandwich.... and just as tasteless

Seems so. Why not ditch it?

I don’t know what ‘winning the internet’ might mean but I find an egg and cress sandwich very tasty.

Doodledog

Crikey. Is this thread still about VS?

Callistemon21
😴

Yes and I was about to post that we’ll soon be inundated by further unwanted details when . . .
I saw it had already happened. 😴😴

Glorianny

Doodledog

How did women's spaces get into this it's a discussion about a teacher wearing a skirt.
It seems very odd to me that you would have such set views on trans women and not be aware of what being in the wrong gender means. Either you refuse to acknowledge the real life experiences of people or you have drawn a conclusion without doing adequate research.
Why you expect someone on GN to explain it to you I have no idea. There's. plenty of information from recognised psychology bodies on line. Just Google it.

Ah, the FOFO demands beloved of those with no answers

I have no ‘set views’ about transwomen- I understand that they believe that they are women, which would require a change of sex. As I said upthread, I understand that. There are two sexes, and some people believe they are in the wrong one.

You used the phrase upthread in the context of a boy who might wonder whether wanting to wear a skirt meant that he was ‘in the wrong gender’. I don’t understand that, as gender is just a series of social expectations. How can someone ’be in the wrong gender’?

I can Google it, and have done, but there is an awful lot of dross out there, based on biologically impossible assumptions about changing sex, and confusion between sex and gender. I have found nothing that explains what being in the wrong gender means, just as I have found nothing about what ‘feeling like a woman’ means, although there is a lot of anecdotal stuff from people saying that they do. Can you direct me to something a bit more useful and evidence based please?

Also, can you clear up the apparent confusion about the power of the skirt? One minute it is just a garment but the next you are saying that it could influence a confused child in matters pertaining to his ‘gender’. I must be missing something but I don’t know how both can apply.

I think perhaps you need to stop cross examining me about what I mean and establish some concepts of your own .
As far as a boy questioning why they are required to dress a certain way and what that has to do with the gender they identify as well, it's been happening for a long time. Many of us have seen boys choosing to wear skirts and wondering about. the difference gender makes. Of course if you question the whole concept then it is a bit difficult to understand why you would find anything wrong in a teacher wearing a skirt.
But once again perhaps you should stop asking people posting on GN to explain matters to you. Google it, then you can decide for yourself what is "dross" There are a number of highly rated organisations posting information on the subject.
However if you are truly interested in finding out more I recommend this piece of research which gives some details and explores the differences in the brain which may be involved
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415463/

Doodledog Your question about gender was answered on page 20 of this thread. The fact that you refuse to accept any answer is your problem, blaming others for not spoon feeding you is pathetic.
You evidently didn't bother to read the link about male and female brains'

A lovely warm relaxing bath - now there’s an idea 🤔

This is what you said on p20
*I think perhaps you need to stop cross examining me about what I mean and establish some concepts of your own .
As far as a boy questioning why they are required to dress a certain way and what that has to do with the gender they identify as well, it's been happening for a long time. Many of us have seen boys choosing to wear skirts and wondering about. the difference gender makes. Of course if you question the whole concept then it is a bit difficult to understand why you would find anything wrong in a teacher wearing a skirt.
But once again perhaps you should stop asking people posting on GN to explain matters to you. Google it, then you can decide for yourself what is "dross" There are a number of highly rated organisations posting information on the subject.
However if you are truly interested in finding out more I recommend this piece of research which gives some details and explores the differences in the brain which may be involved*
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415463/

Does that explain what 'being in the wrong gender' actually means? Or does it just insult me and tell me to find out for myself? You talk about dress as though it is intrinsically part of 'gender' when previously you have said that a skirt is just a skirt and nothing to do with trans issues at all. It is not an answer.

How often did you see boys wearing skirts when you were teaching? Was it really so commonplace that you can talk about 'many of us' doing so and collectively wondering about gender as a result? That's interesting if so, but it sounds anomalous to me.

As for developing concepts of my own, why (and how) would I do that? Who wants to hear my concepts about a cocktail of biology, genetics, sociology and whatever else is involved in this, when I don't know enough about any of them to 'establish concepts'?

As for my being 'pathetic', that is not at all in the spirit of Gransnet. You are just being deliberately insulting.

Telling me what I 'bothered' to do is also very rude - I am not a child who hasn't done her homework. You routinely insist that anyone asking you a simple question is 'demanding' answers, so why you think anyone should 'bother' to do your bidding is beyond me. I do have manners, however, and I did look at it.

There is a definition of gender which states that 'the term [gender] is harder to define, as it is to do with how someone identifies, how a person fits in with the social norms, activities and attributes that are commonly associated with men and women'. Which is interesting, but does not explain anything about the fact that 'gender' shifts across time and place. This is followed by genetic explanation of dysphoria, most of which I could only follow at a surface level. The fact that the author uses language such as sex being 'assigned at birth', and 'cisgender adults' makes me wonder as to the potential bias of the authors, although I have no way of knowing who they are, as this is far from my area of expertise, and I don't have time or inclination to check beyond the article itself.

Sorry - formatting fail.

The bit up to and including the live link is a quote from Glorianny, and the rest is my reply.

The insults and jibes are getting so tedious now. I might take your advice, Delila and go for a bath.

Soak it all away Doodledog 🛁

That sounds like a good idea Delila and maybe relax with an egg and cress sandwich. Never understood how anyone can find egg tasteless.

Yes, the insults and jibes are tedious Doodledog but it's same old same old isn't it and although disappointing, shouldn't come as a surprise.

Egg & cress all round 🥪

Yes, the insults and jibes are tedious Doodledog but it's same old same old isn't it and although disappointing, shouldn't come as a surprise.

It doesn't (and luckily it's water off a duck's back), but it verges on bullying at times, and that's not a term I use lightly. The constant insults and slurs are wearing. I am 'pathetic', don't bother' to follow links, am a bully who thinks I am hilarious (I thought we weren't supposed to tell people what they think?) am 'tasteless' and 'trying to win the Internet' (whatever that means). And all of that is just on this page in the last couple of hours.

I've just realised that there is an unexpected episode of Corrie tonight, and they are going to unearth what looks to be a body, so I shall relax with that, and have my bath afterwards. I have some aromatherapy bath oil, so will de-stress with that.

Sorry Doodledog but if you think much of the stuff on the internet is "dross" I'm absolutely certain anything I posted would be regarded as below your standards.
The first line of the report I linked to says
Gender dysphoria (GD) is a facet of modern human biology which is believed to be derived from the sexual differentiation of the brain. GD “involves a conflict between a person’s physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify
Perhaps you failed to read it.
As I would have expected you dismissed the report.
It also says
Gender dysphoria is a nosological entity defined when used as a diagnosis under the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA). It is a general descriptive term referring to an individual’s discontent with the assigned gender.
I wonder how many answers to your question do you need?

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t know what ‘winning the internet’ might mean but I find an egg and cress sandwich very tasty.

Ooh, I just fancied an egg and cress sandwich (white bloomer) the other day but didn't have any cress.

I do hope primary school children are learning how to grow cress amongst all these other subjects.

if you think much of the stuff on the internet is "dross"

Well, I think most people realise it is 😁

What could be more relaxing than unearthing a body, followed by an aromatherapy bath? Sounds perfect…..

Alternatively, if you don’t have cress, chives are lovely.

I have cottonwool, could grow some 🙂

Cress is the only thing I've ever been able to grow . Thank goodness Mr. S. has green fingers.

Oooh I've never thought if chives GSM I'll have to give that a go.

Callistemon21

^if you think much of the stuff on the internet is "dross"^

Well, I think most people realise it is 😁

But I would hope you wouldn't expect someone else to decide what is dross
After all One man's dross is another man's cress sandwich!

Delila

What could be more relaxing than unearthing a body, followed by an aromatherapy bath? Sounds perfect…..

Oh, I know how to live

Glorianny
Ah, the FOFO demands beloved of those with no answers
You don’t answer questions, Glorianny, even when they’re literally linked to things you’ve said. I didn’t know what FOFO meant, but I suppose your lack of responses is because of FONBATA. Or maybe WIHST.

Who are these people you mentioned who won’t show women respect until women respect them?

Perhaps if we don't lose sight of the fact that adolescence is and has always been a period of time in which young people experience problems due to a number of factors like hormonal changes, peer pressure, pressure from parents and their expectations, the natural exploration of their own identity in a world full of conflicting expectations - not to mention all the numerous antagonisms that might be part of their home environment - then maybe there would not be this rush to believe that they are having a gender-identity crisis.

Also, if more parents really take on board, that the internet as well as being a fantastic source of information is also an equally 'fantastic' wellspring of the darker aspects of human behaviour... and watch - like a hawk if necessary - what their offspring are signing up to; it might help somewhat in the apparent huge rise in mental health problems experienced by the young.

Just thinking out loud.

Sorry - FOFO = F Off and Find Out is a teaching method used by lazy teachers in which the pupil is told to seek the answer for themselves (Urban dictionary definition).

I was more interested in what Glorianny meant by the term in the context of the skirt, and it would have been much easier to just explain that than do dig out an American study about genetics.

I agree, Dickens. Adolescence is such a turbulent time, and stability is what is needed, instead of opportunities to choose your identity. Teenagers have identified with role models for generations, and there have been moral panics when those role models have seemed unsuitable. We have gone from that to a pick and mix smorgasbord of identities, all of which have to be affirmed by the adults who used to be in charge. Worse, this has happened by stealth, with no plan or overarching policy - or not one that is open and honest, anyway.

Glorianny

Sorry Doodledog but if you think much of the stuff on the internet is "dross" I'm absolutely certain anything I posted would be regarded as below your standards.
The first line of the report I linked to says
Gender dysphoria (GD) is a facet of modern human biology which is believed to be derived from the sexual differentiation of the brain. GD “involves a conflict between a person’s physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify
Perhaps you failed to read it.
As I would have expected you dismissed the report.
It also says
Gender dysphoria is a nosological entity defined when used as a diagnosis under the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA). It is a general descriptive term referring to an individual’s discontent with the assigned gender.
I wonder how many answers to your question do you need?

I read the report when you linked to it a couple of days ago.

Have you noticed it uses 'gender' for both sex and 'gender identity'? Classic fudging. involves a conflict between a person’s physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify Sex is not assigned it is observed, which is possible even in utero. Those very few babies born with ambiguous genitalia are not "assigned" a sex as they once were. Genetic testing is done which will confirm whether the child is male or female. Using silly terms like 'assigned' suggests this is arbitrary and at the whim of the 'assigner'

There is no peer reviewed evidence in that report and it uses words like 'may' 'possible' 'suggests'. Not exactly hard fact based is it?