Trans Teacher

I think all these people who are setting standards for teachers should actually realise that the profession is actually struggling to recruit and keep staff, particularly in certain subjects. One HT is quoted as saying “They can have a javelin through their nose if they teach math.”

It's not the dress codes that are the problem with recruitment

🤔

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Attention seeking males do not consider the children

👏👏👏

That is a dreadful thing to say if you are referring to the teacher wearing a dress. Teachers consider children more than any other setof people, sometimes even more than the parents. The clothes you wear do not impact on that level of caring.

That was not my post, I was quoting it. But I agree with it.

Wht do you speak as if others know nothing about teachers? I'm the mother of one and the mother-in-law and aunt of others.
Most teachers are caring and considerate of their pupils but not all are.

This one isn't.
If he cared more about the children than himself he'd not wear something controversial.

How far do you want to carry this controversial thing? Who decides what is controversial. As far as I'm concerned if a man wants to wear a dress let him, I wear trousers.
If a woman teacher wears a hijab and some parents object,it becomes controversial, should she then have to remove it?
You really can't claim that because you don't like something that entitles you to view something as controversial and therefore it must be stopped

Callistemon21

It's not the dress codes that are the problem with recruitment

🤔

No but limit your market by restrictions and your are less likely to fill a post. As the head said, if someone is prepared to teach shortage subjects their appearance becomes irrelevant

There is nothing whatsoever controversial about a hijab.

A veil which covered the face would not be suitable for a teacher to wear.

How far do you want to carry this controversial thing?

How far are you ?

Callistemon21

Only you used that word, icanhandthemback
🤔

It has been implied in earlier posts with more than one person talking about him getting his kicks.

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Attention seeking males do not consider the children

👏👏👏

That is a dreadful thing to say if you are referring to the teacher wearing a dress. Teachers consider children more than any other setof people, sometimes even more than the parents. The clothes you wear do not impact on that level of caring.

Teachers consider children more than any other setof people,

Really, all of them? Even the Canadian one in the photo Nicenanny posted at 9.52 this morning? That outfit and "extras" have no impact on the pupils?

Must tell my friend's daughter who is a dedicated children's nurse at Great Ormand Street Hospital that she needs to up her caring to that of a teacher.

^School IS NOT the place to express yourself or your individuality icanhandthembback

There are some professions that just need to be plain and respectful in their dress teacher, doctors, police, fire, office etc etc No woman could or should turn up in a skimpy low cut top and sparkly tight skirt to teach a classroom of kids
It’s not about quashing the man’s expression but conforming to acceptable dress codes ^

Why is it unacceptable for a man to wear a skirt? Who deemed that should be a rule for men? When did they deem it? What authority did they have to deem it? As long as it is a decent length and not split up to the midriff, where is the problem? As I said, as long as he "covered", that is the most important thing. We have no information that tells us that he is inappropriately dressed with low cut, sparkly tops and wearing a belt as a skirt.

Years ago, anything but a short back and sides haircuts would have been unacceptable in many jobs but that has changed as long as it is neat and tidy. Times and dress codes change. Once upon a time, Firefighters and the Police wore lovely shirts with epaulettes and beautifully pressed trousers. Now they don't but wear teeshirts or polo shirts. Things move on. I preferred things as they were but cannot in all conscience say that the people who made the changes are wrong.

Were the first women to wear trousers doing it for kicks or were they just attention seeking. Some may have been but at least now we can wear trousers if we want to and no one cares.

Sorry my post should have read:

School IS NOT the place to express yourself or your individuality icanhandthembback

There are some professions that just need to be plain and respectful in their dress teacher, doctors, police, fire, office etc etc No woman could or should turn up in a skimpy low cut top and sparkly tight skirt to teach a classroom of kids
It’s not about quashing the man’s expression but conforming to acceptable dress codes

Why is it unacceptable for a man to wear a skirt? Who deemed that should be a rule for men? When did they deem it? What authority did they have to deem it? As long as it is a decent length and not split up to the midriff, where is the problem? As I said, as long as he "covered", that is the most important thing. We have no information that tells us that he is inappropriately dressed with low cut, sparkly tops and wearing a belt as a skirt.

Years ago, anything but a short back and sides haircuts would have been unacceptable in many jobs but that has changed as long as it is neat and tidy. Times and dress codes change. Once upon a time, Firefighters and the Police wore lovely shirts with epaulettes and beautifully pressed trousers. Now they don't but wear teeshirts or polo shirts. Things move on. I preferred things as they were but cannot in all conscience say that the people who made the changes are wrong.

Once upon a time, Firefighters and the Police wore lovely shirts with epaulettes and beautifully pressed trousers. Now they don't but wear teeshirts or polo shirts.

teeshirts or polo shirts, not in the Met they don't. Still white shirts and black tie.

Why would sparkly tops be an issue, icanhandthemback?

Callistemon21

There is nothing whatsoever controversial about a hijab.

A veil which covered the face would not be suitable for a teacher to wear.

WHAT! oh come on! The wearing of the hijab along with other religious symbols has been banned by the EU. Some UK employers don't allow it growthbusiness.co.uk/wearing-hijab-illegal-now-uk-lawyers-explain-15645/
How controversial do you want it?

Rosie51

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Attention seeking males do not consider the children

👏👏👏

That is a dreadful thing to say if you are referring to the teacher wearing a dress. Teachers consider children more than any other setof people, sometimes even more than the parents. The clothes you wear do not impact on that level of caring.

Teachers consider children more than any other setof people,

Really, all of them? Even the Canadian one in the photo Nicenanny posted at 9.52 this morning? That outfit and "extras" have no impact on the pupils?

Must tell my friend's daughter who is a dedicated children's nurse at Great Ormand Street Hospital that she needs to up her caring to that of a teacher.

I'm sure your friend's daughter is as dedicated and caring as any other children's nurse. However her contact with each child will be for a limited time. She is unlikely to have years of interaction with a child, or to be responsible for trying to undo the damage some parents do to their child, for monitoring their development, trying to build self esteem, teaching values and providing counselling and advice. All this on top of teaching the required subjects.

Fleurpepper

Parsley3

I watched the last night of the Proms yesterday and one of the people in the women's section of the choir was dressed in a suit like the men. Gender fluidity is with us and 10 years from now it will no longer attract a comment, imo.

And she looked great, didn't she.

I didn’t notice this. Was it definitely a woman wearing male clothes? It could have been a counter-tenor (male voice type) singing with the altos. It’s the same range.

Glorianny

Rosie51

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Attention seeking males do not consider the children

👏👏👏

That is a dreadful thing to say if you are referring to the teacher wearing a dress. Teachers consider children more than any other setof people, sometimes even more than the parents. The clothes you wear do not impact on that level of caring.

Teachers consider children more than any other setof people,

Really, all of them? Even the Canadian one in the photo Nicenanny posted at 9.52 this morning? That outfit and "extras" have no impact on the pupils?

Must tell my friend's daughter who is a dedicated children's nurse at Great Ormand Street Hospital that she needs to up her caring to that of a teacher.

I'm sure your friend's daughter is as dedicated and caring as any other children's nurse. However her contact with each child will be for a limited time. She is unlikely to have years of interaction with a child, or to be responsible for trying to undo the damage some parents do to their child, for monitoring their development, trying to build self esteem, teaching values and providing counselling and advice. All this on top of teaching the required subjects.

Great Ormand Street hospital has some children that are under their care sometimes for years, they have dedicated nurses to whom they become very attached and who are very attached to them in return. Preserving a child's life and trying to get them back to some degree of health is a very committed profession, which includes working shifts, weekends, bank holidays and other disadvantageous conditions. Christmas Day with your family being a treat for example.
No comment about the Canadian teacher's caring and suitability for the role? Are you still maintaining every teacher is a paragon of saintly caring? Or should you have actually said "some teachers" are extremely caring about their pupils?

Rosie51

Glorianny

Rosie51

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Attention seeking males do not consider the children

👏👏👏

That is a dreadful thing to say if you are referring to the teacher wearing a dress. Teachers consider children more than any other setof people, sometimes even more than the parents. The clothes you wear do not impact on that level of caring.

Teachers consider children more than any other setof people,

Really, all of them? Even the Canadian one in the photo Nicenanny posted at 9.52 this morning? That outfit and "extras" have no impact on the pupils?

Must tell my friend's daughter who is a dedicated children's nurse at Great Ormand Street Hospital that she needs to up her caring to that of a teacher.

I'm sure your friend's daughter is as dedicated and caring as any other children's nurse. However her contact with each child will be for a limited time. She is unlikely to have years of interaction with a child, or to be responsible for trying to undo the damage some parents do to their child, for monitoring their development, trying to build self esteem, teaching values and providing counselling and advice. All this on top of teaching the required subjects.

Great Ormand Street hospital has some children that are under their care sometimes for years, they have dedicated nurses to whom they become very attached and who are very attached to them in return. Preserving a child's life and trying to get them back to some degree of health is a very committed profession, which includes working shifts, weekends, bank holidays and other disadvantageous conditions. Christmas Day with your family being a treat for example.
No comment about the Canadian teacher's caring and suitability for the role? Are you still maintaining every teacher is a paragon of saintly caring? Or should you have actually said "some teachers" are extremely caring about their pupils?

I don't know the Canadian teacher. Don't know (or indeed need to know) about his boobs. If he is a poor teacher (and there are some and many of them dress very nicely!) he won't last.
I know all about great Ormond Street and other hospitals around the country who deal with long term children's conditions. The nurses have however a dedicated back up team of social workers, health care assistants etc. They don't deal on a daily basis with children living on the edge of neglect with no back up apart from an overworked social worker.

Doodledog

Why would sparkly tops be an issue, icanhandthemback?

They wouldn't to me but Bluebelle seemed to think they'd be a problem in a school. I'd never give an inch but thought I'd give a cm!

When I was a teacher, I always expected to dress smartly whether it be a dress or a pair of trousers. I wore smart shoes rather than trainers or strapless sandals. Like a lot of people of a certain age I do raise my eyebrows at some of the things I see worn out and about but I am always mindful that I am more of an old fuddy duddy than them and times change.

Many of the comments on this thread have reminded me of the time gay teachers were afraid to reveal their sexuality and be open about it, because it was alleged they were a danger to children. Those days are passed but prejudice remains.

Why all the fuss. ? We know nothing about the school dress code, about the teacher involved, about why he is dressed in that way. As long as the Head teacher and governors are in agreement then it can be only conjecture on this matter. Until then it is" sound and fury , signifying nothing "

Rosie51

^Once upon a time, Firefighters and the Police wore lovely shirts with epaulettes and beautifully pressed trousers. Now they don't but wear teeshirts or polo shirts.^

teeshirts or polo shirts, not in the Met they don't. Still white shirts and black tie.

Whilst I like to see that, Rosie51, I am more concerned that they are adequately protected for the job they are doing. I have definitely seen less formal attire on the police but maybe it depends on the actual job they are doing and I see them more at HQ than in the street as they merged back offices with the Firefighters.

Mollygo

VioletSky

This has nothing to do with sexuality.. it is just clothing

This has nothing to do with trans people, it's just clothing

It has a lot to do with sexism though because expecting anyone to confirm to gender norms and bullying those who don't is inherently sexist

This is not sexist.
This is to do with males attention seeking.

My concern is not about a man in a skirt. Like I said, the head should have publicly given him permission.
My concern is about what he will try next once the skirt ceases to gain him the attention he craves.

You have absolutely no way of knowing if "This is to do with males attention seeking.", is true or not. Your comment is a fairy story. By your measure, that of making yourself "noticable", it could even be you who is seeking attention.

When you were working, how many times did out point out to women that they were seeking attention when they wore trousers?

My daughter works in a school and they are not allowed to wear clothes with low necklines or have any visible tattoos . They can’t even wear open toed shoes. No denim allowed, either. Pretty much standard round here.

Beckham in a skirt