Mumsnetter asking AIBU about Childcare from GPs

Good point Faye

And would she be willing to help them out, Faye? Having read her OP, I am sceptical that she would.

My experience is that most elderly parents don't ask their adult children for help - not only do they prize their independence, but they don't want to be a burden.

I really don't understand why the OP is getting all this flack

Which OP? The Gransnet one or the Mumsnet one?

And is discussion of an issue "flack"? I wouldn't have defined it so; it's just a discussion with people putting forward various points of view. There are no insults or anything that could be called flack that I can see.

I think the key to this is the Mumsnet OP's pregnancy. She doesn't mention having consulted the GPs about whether they will be able to look after 2 children.
They probably feel a bit taken for granted and (I guess) are finding it more tiring than they expected to be looking after one DGS, especially if his mum accepts bad behaviour as normal.

I think she is getting flack because she makes so many assumptions. I am quite cross with my own DD at the moment because she has assumed that, at a family wedding later this year, I will be happy to toddle off to bed early with the kids while she goes on to a specially-booked nightclub after the main event. I quite like the idea of a bop, aged and infirm GP that I am...

But her MiL, who lives close to her, is amazing. She never minds how many of her GCs she looks after, or for how long. I think she's mad. I like seeing mine for weekly blocks, but would hate to have them on a weekly basis. I know I would feel too tied, I did feel tied by my own children, so I wouldn't want that again. I have several friends who care for their GCs and it does seem to cause consternation when they realise they have had enough. The parents seem to take it very personally.

I heard my next door neighbour's Mum shouting at the twins ( ) for several days in a row. I saw my neighbour and gently asked her if she didn't think her Mum might be finding it a bit much. They are now three and she has had them since they were born. My neighbour kept on asking, why, but I wouldn't say more. Within two weeks they were booked into a nursery every morning and now Grandma only has them in the afternoons for a couple of hours. No more shouting. I for one am very happy with the new arrangement and Grandma looks ten years younger.

I mean the OP on Mumsnet. She is coming in for a lot of criticism. I didn't say there were insults did I?

scrolls back though post

We are discussing the issue thatbags and I have stated my confusion as to what this poor woman has done wrong. She had thought there was an arrangement in place, and suddenly she finds out, at Christmas that it looks as if her parents are finding it all too much, via her sister. What a shock for a working mother.

I was rather touched by her hurt that her parents didn't express any positives such as they love their GC, even if they are finding it too much.

I've come to the conclusion that there are those of us who find it a joy and a privilege to look after our grandchildren and those who find it a tiring imposition.

Neither will convince the other, nor do they need to. So that being true

There are quite a few positions in between those extremes, anya, including my position about which you know nothing.

Do we actually know whether the GPs said anything positive? I suspect we don't.

The people who make such judgments about what positions there are are the uncompromising ones. Other people have responded with quite a variety of reasons why they sympathise with the GPs or with the mum. I find it extraordinary that the mum apparently didn't sense that her parents were finding the job difficult. I suppose they could have tried desperately hard to hide it from her because they really wanted to be helpful.

Until it all just got too much and on top of them and the bubble was burst.

I don't envy the mum's position but it's not an unusual one for working parents to have to make new childcare arrangements.

You obviously haven't read my earlier posts, but I think you've just proved my point that inasmuch as we all have our own opinions and all the discussion in the world will rarely, if ever alter them.

Yes, uncompromising is about right.

Anyway for me the discussion is over so no point in replying, it would be stupid to waste your fine mind on me.

Don't worry, I won't. I may carry on thinking about the issue though. Sleep tight

I think sometimes "mission creep" happens. it appears to have done so in this case. The odd hour or two extra here and there and the occasional morning or afternoon at weekends can eventually do the straw and camel's back thing. I, for one, tend to crave my Friday evening gin and tonic when the four or five children have gone home and rather dread answering a ringing telephone on Saturday mornings. And yes, I do love my grandchildren, gets lots of pleasure from being with them and value their affection for me and interest in the things I do.

Anya I actually find your tone to be rather self-congratulatory and lacking in understanding of those people who don't have the boundless energy that others may have.

I would suggest that if a person does feel it to be an "imposition", that is possibly because it has been imposed upon them without much prior consultation or consideration.

You speak as if these grandparents had made no contribution but in fact they have been looking after their daughter's child since he was 10 months old and now they are - it seems without proper consultation - expected to look after another baby. It is very demanding looking after two young children whose ages are close together.

Even the mums on mumsnet overwhelmingly feel that the poster was being very unreasonable. Being a caring grandparent surely doesn't mean being a doormat.

I agree Eloethan
anya it is not so black and white as you suggest, with self-sacrificing GPs regarding it as a joy and privilege to look after their GCs, and selfish ones regarding it as an imposition.
It seems to me that in the case of the mumsnet OP's parents, looking after their DGC may well have started off as a joy and privilege, but as absent suggests, with the passage of time, become a tiring imposition as the mumsnet OP took them for granted, arrived home late, asked them to do Saturdays too so she could do DIY on her house, and appeared to begrudge taking time off work herself so they could go on holiday. And then assumed they would be able to look after a new baby too.
Were they just supposed to suck it up?

Ten years ago, my husband and I looked after our grandson as well as running a guest house. We found it very enjoyable. He was actually in childcare, but we used to be phoned up to go and collect him as he was unsettling the other babies. We found out later that it was the other babies that were making him cry, a result of him having ASD.
Now I look after him at least three days a week from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. and take his sister to school. I teach him at home, and am actually quite worn out some days. The alternative, though, is that I would miss out on a lot of them growing up; he is now 12, she is 7.
The thing is that my son and his partner have helped us a lot, and we have helped them. That is what families do. However, I am sure if it got too much for me, they would understand, and not be as unthinking as the mum who wrote the OP.

I couldn't open the link to that thread but I did read a similar [I assume]one recently where young mothers were saying it should be an honour and a privilege for Gp's to look after their grandchildren. The reason I looked at the thread was because I've just done a three month stint of childminding to help out which, in retrospect, has possibly made me feel a bit depressed as I hardly went out for those three months and then found myself the only member of our family not invited to any Christmas social events which made me feel like some sort of employee . There has to be the right balance when it comes to childminding. I'm also beginning to question in what way my grandchildren regard me. It'll be interesting to see how things are now that the circumstances have changed.

We only have one grandson at the moment. We love him very much and see him regularly. We are happy to babysit and help out when we can. We take him away with us for short breaks in our caravan and for a week in the summer holidays. We would not be willing to provide regular childcare week after week. Dr1 would not expect us to nor would DD 2 or 3 if and when they decide to have a family.

My parents were our 'emergency' back up. If they already had plans when we phoned if, for example, one of the children was too ill for school/childminder, one of us took a day off work to cover the emergency. It would never have occurred to me (or my sisters) that my parents should give up their well earned retirement/hobbies/friends to look after my /our children so we could work.

Exactly Iam64 Having children is a privilege and with privilege comes responsibility. I'm sure most Grandparents are happy to help when they can but it should never be assumed that they will provide child care on a regular basis.

I think it is a little harsh to say that there are those who find it a "tiresome imposition" - there are those, like us, who would give our right arm to be well enough to do it, and the phrase implies that the GC are tiresome rather than simply tiring for those not in the best of health. It is a privilege to look after them, but children should not assume that this is possible for all GPs

Yes, there is a great difference between tiresome and tiring, and between an resented imposition for selfish grandparents and a worrying responsibility for those with reduced mobility and stamina.

As for it being "an honour and a privilege for Gp's to look after their grandchildren", if they think their children are such an honour and privilege, the parents should in that case want to give up everything else in their lives to look after them.

I think I have to agree with Anya here, inasmuch as I think there are opposing viewpoints about whether grandparents should be asked to look after children or not. All other things being equal - health, finance, distance, personal circumstances, there are grandparents and parents who are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this and many who fall somewhere in the middle and muddle along, perhaps with some resentment on both sides about how much or how little is done.

I look after my DGS 5 days a week from 7am to 6pm with one overnight stay. I also work part time while he is at preschool and at weekends, and I have changed my job and my hours to be able to do this amount of childcare. I'm not smug or self-congratulatory; I have chosen to do it because I simply adore him and can think of nothing in this world I would rather do than spend time with him at this magical age. It will only be for a few years but I hope to be able to offer childcare for any other grandchildren that come along while I am fit enough.

I accept it wouldn't be everyone's choice and I think the key is communication and honesty if things get too much. It certainly is not ok to moan to other members of the family behind the parents' back.

absent's 'mission-creep' reference is spot on. When we happily offer or agree to babysit, or to pick up a child from nursery and give them their tea before being collected by mum or dad, we don't knowingly sign up to doing this with the next five grandchildren. Nor do we contract to expand the one- off emergency minding to taking it on two or three times a week. Nor do the parents always think that their siblings with children will also need to ask for some help with childminding every now and then.

Taking on such childcare responsibilities in your fifties whilst you're perhaps still working becomes a different task in your sixties, when you may be retired but also not necessarily as fit. I have childminding days or hours which my children negotiate with me, or I offer to do because I want to and I'm free to do it. I'm not the parent, though - they have to organise routine childcare independently of me, and I'm the back-up, as are some of the other grandparents. The only one of us who childminds routinely gave up part of her job and went part-time - she minds three year old twin grandaughters three days a week for the same salary she would have otherwise got. She's in her fifties - she'll return to full-time work when they start school. It's mutually suitable - they're just a few doors away from home and she has lots of toys and equipment to ensure they are kept occupied. Plus, she's a safe pair of hands who has enjoyed this role.

The Mumsnet OP seems to have lost sight of what should have been contracted about childcare and should not make assumotions that the grandarents will remain fit and willing to childmind another little one, however much they adore their grandchildren.