daughter-in-law from hell

Quite a lot of a son's choice of partner is influenced by his mother - not just how she has brought him up, but by her personality, her relationship with him and with the rest of the family, her attitude to the world. It is not always a positive correlation, it might influence him to be attracted to a completely different type of person, to want something quite dofferent to his parents' relationship.

The same is true of a girl's father. He influences her view of men in general, either to choose men who are similar, or to avoid that type and go for another kind altogether. My own DH was very like my father in temperament, though I was consciously not aware of that at the time.

How can it be otherwise? Our parents are our first relationships with others, and for our early years, almost the only ones. We oberve them far more closely than they, or we, are aware of, and we unconsciously absorb or reject their philosophies.

Thanks all for a great response, confirming what I really knew, keep schtum. We have always bent over backwards to avoid probs, always baby sit when asked, never say a word against to son, never criticize anything.

I do leave her alone! She does envy the relationship I have with my own daughter. She has a knack, with myself and my daughter, of making us feel all the time that we have done something wrong , something I think her own mother does to her. She seems to be constantly rowing with/appeasing her own mother.

Witnesses, yes, will do that, take a bodyguard with me. Yup, she is exhibiting learned behaviour. DILFH is estranged from a cousin with family she was close to at one time and her mother is estranged from her own sisters, so would not say a hobby exactly.

Bottom line is she is putting a divide between us and son and grandchildren. I suppose it is getting to a point where I should take my son aside. I did say in a minor fracas a few years ago that in any argument he should always take the side of wife, and not worry about us but we are not close so I am unaware how he is seeing things these days. He will be unaware of how I feel and what she has been up to. Yet to say anything to either of them would mean Krakatoa.

It does help to vent here.

Just a thought flutter arising out an issue I had with my DiL a few months ago and advice which made me look at the problem from a very different angle....have you tried finding something to praise? Be it ever so little?

It was your post above, about her envying the relationship you have with your own daughter, which made me think again. And look at the problem from a new perspective.

Everyone loves a bit of praise. Without lathering it on perhaps compliment her on her shoes, or a handbag, or her children's behaviour, or a nice cup of tea, or anything. Just dropping the odd word of praise when you can.

Little positive verbal strokes

I suspect you are right when you say the fault lies in the relationship with her own mother, and perhaps you can show her how a relationship could be. Help her relearn behaviour patterns. Enlist your daughter in the strategy if possible. Do the unexpected.

It may not work at first but persevere, after all you will be the loser if things don't improve.

Don't engage, I repeat, "don't engage". These are dangerous grounds. You should try to avoid her as much as possible and also don't speak to her more than necessary.

And how will that make things better Lorie ?

I completely agree with all the comments about rising above it and staying calm. I've done my fair share of this over the past three years and I think it was worth it in the end,

When my OH passed away it was like living in a war zone. I was thinking in my innocence that my grown up kids would be kind - far from it. My three sons were falling out big time and I was caught up in the nightmare of verbal abuse and general nastiness some of it aimed at me.

I became the object of all their grief and shock. The things they called me are unprintable and I was just a sad lonely widow reeling from my DH's sudden death.

My worst experience among many others was standing at a bus stop after a verbal attack from my Dil. She had called me cold, unfeeling .... it just went on and on.

I had to ring a taxi because I thought I was going to pass out. She had recently lost her mum to cancer and I knew it had hit her hard, but I had just lost my husband of 44 years.

However - I stayed calm throughout all of it and went to Counsellors who helped me through. If I had retaliated things would have become much worse I'm sure.

The only thing is does all this keeping calm effect your health.????

I think that this thread is slightly different to others that are on gransnet about a dil, in that you said that your son seems quite happy with her and their family[did you mean children, or his ils or both?]. So you really dont want to rock the boat too much.

Which brings you to the relationship between you and your DD and, your dil.
I think Anya has given some good advice for starters. See how her ideas pan out first, and then come back here if they dont work?

My other idea, would have been to record some of what she says to you and your DD.
Bullying is horrible. Low level or otherwise.
Perhaps when you play back a recording in private, you and your DD can listen, and perhaps think that it sounds better than you thought? Or it could be worse. And on no account, play it to other people.
It would be some sort of evidence for you and your DD, but if your son is happy, I dont think playing the recording to him at some point would work in your favour, unless the situation gets quite a lot worse than it is now.

Recording people without their knowledge and agreement is not on soon. I do hope the OP doesn't follow that suggestion. It's passive aggressive, and can only add to any unpleasantness.

It is done in care homes, when people suspect that their loved ones are not being cared for well.
So I dont agree with you there Iam64.

The lady and her daughter are getting bullied. She doesnt have to do anything with the recording, or recordings, but at least she will have it.

Care homes are very different than family homes soontobe. It matters not to me whether you agree with me, I don't like the advice you gave. Can you imagine how this young woman would feel if the advice was followed, can you imagine the fall out in what is already a tense relationship. Brendawymms approach (above) is good advice and from someone who has professional as well as personal experience of the minefield that can be family relationships

The OP wants the dil to leave her alone. I am just giving her ideas. She doesnt have to follow through. Only she knows the exact situation, and how bad the bullying is.
The OP and her DD are being bullied. Up to the OP.

I like the post from Brendawymmms and also FlicketyB on this problem.I think I would do as they suggest, don't appear cold and distant. praise her, and if need be as Flick suggests, pour treacle.She needs a reaction from you, so let it be a positive one.

Recording in care homes is usually resorted to as a result of suspected mistreatment; recording family squabbles would only add fuel to the fire IMO.

I do wish people wouldn't misuse the word 'bullying' - the OP hasn't said what DiL actually says so difficult to guage but it doesn't sound like bullying, just gobby and argumentative.

Well said, river.

The op used the word bullying. I took her at her word.

I vaguely remember similar advice about secretly recording conversations in a problem a year or so ago and similar opinions were expressed. Recording anybody without their knowledge is an appalling infringement of privacy and IMHO could constitute grounds for a complete split from OP's DS.
We are not talking about bullying in a care home here, just 2 adult women who clearly do not get on but also can presumably stand up for themselves. To go down the road of recording and producing this as "evidence" smacks of paranoia.
Somewhere I have missed where DD comes into it?

Mountains? Molehills?

I hope the op isnt getting minimised on this thread. Not being listened to. Only she knows how bad it is for her and her DD. And she did say the dil was the dil from hxxx. But that could be a turn of phrase as well.

Let's not get bogged down in what was only a suggestion. I think Soon has got the message.

To be honest 'the DiL from hell' sounds a bit OTT going on the little information we have.

Instead of thinking of her as the DiL from hell just think of her as someone who you do not really like.We do not like everyone we meet but we tolerate neighbours,colleagues and family members. If she makes your son happy be grateful,that isn't always the case sadly.

she has a knack with myself and my daughter of making us feel all the time that we have done something wrong

Where does this equate to bullying of OP and her daughter?
Over-reaction or what? Let's not escalate this into something toxic, surely 2 grown women can handle gobby and argumentative? There are two of you and one of her after all. Maybe she feels outnumbered and has to keep her end up.
In the overall scheme of things it sounds as if teacups and storms figure both in the initial scenario and some of the responses.

The op mentions bullying in her opening post.

The op doesnt say gobby and argumentative.

In this thread a poster is believed more than the op!

Ideally fluttERBY123 will post again if she wants, to give us more information if she is so inclined.
If not, she is free to do what she wants as regards taking any advice from any of the suggestions offered.

a kind of low level bullying

I suppose how you interpret that is subjective ; stroppy or gobby could both fall into that category depending on your point of view. Overbearing, also.
It seems significant that OP thinks her DIL is " jealous " of OP's relationship with her own daughter. What could have given her that idea? Maybe DIL is feeling outnumbered and left out and is (over) compensating. Who other than OP knows?

Whatever, let's accept that not every "in law" relationship is 100% sweetness and light. Live and let live.