Hopeless dilemma

"Very hard, as none of us find confrontation easy."



I would have thought self restraint in this situation would be far more difficult!

Everyone is still going as they were, including the op, post 10.25am, so there is no need for me to keep quiet.

I still have advice to give. Even if some people think it is twaddle, it doesnt matter. Others may not. It doesnt matter if people give advice that lots of people think is twaddle. Because there still may be some who find it useful.
If anyone doesnt want to take my advice, fine.

Because it isnt just 1 person a poster talks to. It is to the thousands or
however many that watch this site as well.
And if any of them ever happen to be in the same sort of situation, here is my advice, which people are perfectly entitled to ignore.

In an emergency
1.There are 24 hours in a day. A person can drive through the night and meet up with someone if it helps them, and if they have the money.

2. In emergency situations, if they havent got the money, they might be able to borrow it. People would be able to see that it is an emergency.

3. Ideally, work, if running a business, needs to be organised in such a way that there are deputies. Difficult in these times I know, but ideally, always think about who can be left holding the can so to speak if there is an emergency.

An op does not own a thread on here. It is said many times.
Having said that, it is right behavior to have empathy, charity, tact and compassion.

But also, many other people can benefit from a thread.
On this site, there is not allowed to be a thread about a thread. So there is no oppurtunity to post again about a certain subject at a different time.

Not all people are going to agree with me. No one ever agree with another person completely, such is life. But if others can learn something or be helped by a thread, then they should be.

Elegran, I will bear in mind some points on your post.

I used to post much more often, Luckygirl, but there just seems to be a trickle of bitterness that runs through some threads and this deters me somewhat.
I felt comfortable in sharing a problem or two as well, and could rely on constructive and empathetic (as well as sympathetic) support, which helped me so much. I feel rather reluctant to post anything along similar lines now.
It wasn't just about problems, worries and fears, though. Gransnet used to be more of a community of women (and a wee clutch of men) who contributed sensible and well-thought-out threads and comments.
If it wasn't for the really very fine people that I've already met with and will continue to meet with, I think Gransnet would be history for me.

I'm just very surprised that the daughter didn't deal with it immediately it happened - and I mean deal with it, vehemently, angrily, and in a pulling-no-punches manner, rather than go crying to her mother on the phone. I know my daughter would have immediately hit the roof if anyone had hit one of her children in such a manner. And sod the family finances. They have to come second to a small child's emotional well being.

Trying to diagnose the man with some illness seems to me clutching straws.

Sorry to follow a red herring but I've just read the last few posts on the thread. As soontobe has left the thread (so she says) I am probably too late to reply to her claim to not mince her words with a few unminced words myself. She shouldn't mind, she likes straight talking (but she doesn't need to comment on it all).

1) Only half a dozen? Most, more likely, if you could count all those who keep a low profile to avoid attracting her attention, or who DO mince their words and keep quiet when reprimanded by someone who clearly believes that they are acting for the best in recommending their own recipe for all things, without looking from the point of view of the other person. That is what empathy means, and charity and tact and consideration - it means moving outside your own little bubble and NOT applying one-size-fits-all from a position of total ignorance of the individual and unfamiliarity with the situation.

2) Proselytising - I am aware that the prime concern of the disciples and of all the evangelical churches since was/is to proclaim the Gospel to those who did not have the privilege of hearing it direct from Jesus. BUT people on here are not ignorant of the Good News. Many have heard and heeded. Many have even studied it in depth. They have learnt dead languages, read obscure contemporary texts, excavated ancient sites, compared the musings of learned scholars written over centuries, studied the way different groups have interpreted the Bible afresh and formed new denominations to worship in a different way.

3) The GN guidelines are against sermons. A sermon doesn't have to be an hour long, listened to on hard seats while hoping the Sunday joint isn't overcooked. It can be very short.

4) It is counter productive to keep on pushing people in the direction you would like them to go. My own reaction to someone trying relentlessly to influence me or to convert me to their choice of a course of action is to instinctively dig in my heels and resist. I think there are a lot of Gransnet members who are the same. Less is more. More is too much. Silence is golden.

My DH who has Alzheimer's "loses it "very quickly now but that wasn't his nature until recently and you say this man has always been difficult. However some traits do worsen with age and illness so it could be a factor.

My daughter came home in tears saying 'mummy, you told me people weren't allowed to smack other people children' so she had the double whammy of thinking that I'd lied to her as well. When I confronted her friends mother about it, she said 'I saw you walking towards me..you were wearing a black tee shirt and your face was as black as your top'. I don't lose my temper very often so, when I do, it really shocks people!

Thank you Nonnie and *Tegan.

Nonnie I take your point about the christian aspect of one of my posts. It is just extraordinary to see that those who make the most noise about it (and distort many threads on that basis0 are the ones with the least empathy. I do know that there are many christians who just quietly get on with their lives, doing good by stealth and I applaud them.

Tegan - we have been considering the diabetic element and wondering if he is losing it a bit. As to your comments about your DD being smacked, the fact that you are still angry about it so many years later is a reflection of how I am feeling at present. You are right that it is wearing me down! But we will all rise above it in time.

I'm not, in any way trying to excuse this awful mans behaviour but people with diabetes [especially those who can be in denial of it and don't manage it very well] can be very prone to mood swings. I wonder if this person is one of them? I was never in favour of it actually becoming illegal to smack children but, in cases like this I wish there was a legal comeback. My daughter was smacked by her friends mother when she was very young, and she could never understand why someone was allowed to do that to her. I'm still angry about it thirty years later. I don't know what the answer is to all this but you are a very wise and kind person Lucky girl and, if anyone can negotiate this difficult situation you can. You're hurting for both your child and your grandchild at the moment though, and that's wearing you down . Be strong .

soon I don't think there are only a few people who disagree with you, I think it is the majority. Without going back and re-reading it all I think you said a couple of days ago that you were leaving this thread and then didn't. You have said it again so please recognise when you 'are in a hole' and 'stop digging'.

To whoever suggested that it is the Christians who are self righteous I think you are mistaking those who profess to be Christians with those who simply are but do not shout about it.

Alea I don't want to 'run for cover' I want to lash out and tell them they are talking rubbish but I do try to contain myself!

Thank you. It is difficult to unpick the basic issue from all the business complications that could catapult them into bankruptcy if this guy walked - he is such a stubborn man and has not spoken to his sister for 40 years because they fell out over something.

There are, as some have pointed out, some positives in the situation. The lad on the receiving end has dealt with it by a bout of crying and hitting for 3 hours on the day it happened. He woke the next morning and has not mentioned it since, and it will be interesting to see how he responds if he sees his GF.

The older boy is another thing - he is more intelligent and has been thinking it through and saying such things as "I did not know adults were allowed to do that."

There will be an answer to all this in the end, as the boys have such lovely parents.

Lucky girl Don't lose heart. Lots of us empathise and understand your sad situation. Don't let the self centred spouting of one member detract from the huge support you have from all the kind friends you have on here.
I feel for your poor sil as well as your dd, they must be going through such torment over this problem.
(((Hugs)))

I dont want you to leave Luckygirl.
I will back out and leave you to the thread.

kittylester I think you are right in pointing out that there are many very positive aspects in this little boy's life and it is probably better to also bear those in mind and not to "catastrophise" the situation. Children are very resilient but they quickly pick up on adults' anxieties and this may not be helpful to the situation.

I absolutely agree with Alea's wise and sensitive post and I will in future try and reflect on her words before rushing to put in my two penn'orth - as I hope others will.

It is beyond belief that a thread that intended to ask for some support and ideas as to how this situation might be tackled from others' experiences has been hijacked by the insensitive posts of the self-righteous.

How do we all deal with this? Gransnet used to be a place where people could share their problems, their delights, humour, intelligent debate and fun.

It has now been hijacked completely by one poster in particular who has an agenda to pursue, and who does not grasp the subtleties of such things as this thread, nor has the ability to join in intellectual debate. I would be sad to drop out, as many others have in the face of this, as Gransnet has been a source of support, fun and mental stimulation to me and I have enjoyed being a part of it. How very sad that it is now dragged down by all this nonsense.

Perhaps the power to destroy and spoil is just too tempting. What a shame.

Has someone told you that you have 'empathy, charity, tact and consideration', soontobe?

Oh soontobe I fear you just don't get it. It is not the recipients of your posts that you need to think about, but the content. Do take time to reflect please.

I am trying to imagine taking a deep breath and saying
"Dad, I know things were different in your day, but we don't smack our children and we need you to respect that. "Xxx" is not a naughty boy and he is very young. We do not want him to grow up scared of his grandfather but to love and respect (?)him"

Ouch, is that possible?

I have empathy, charity, tact and consideration. You will find it all over my posts across gransnet.

But I now realise that there are a few posters who would rather not recieve them, so I will try and remember who they are in future.
It is not a problem, as long as I remember who they are.

Well put Alea

Things are likely to come to a head today as the in-laws will be back home. My DD is dealing with 2 sick children, although thankfully she herself is now feeling a lot better. We have just been trying to give her the strength to say it as it is when she sees them. Very hard, as none of us find confrontation easy. Thank you for all the support and kindness from those who understand all the potential difficulties that could arise from this situation.

I think that the "milk of human kindness" is in short supply in some quarters kitty, but thankfully those people are in the minority.

Well said, petra.

Luckygirl, my heart goes out to you and your family over this.
I've had the picture in my mind over the weekend of the wee boy having his backside smacked hard by this horrible idiot of a man, and it's awful. You can only do what you've been doing, supporting and empathising with your DD. Have you had any chance to have any contact with the grandfather (sorry if this has already been mentioned)?

soontobe, are you proud of not mincing your words?

No, Soontobe. It's not that your advice is too strong: it's mostly that your advice is a load of twaddle.

Sorry Luckygirl typing let me down there