What is a 'typical ' boy?

(That was supposed to follow Elegran's post ) (far too much talking going on round here. grumble grumble...)

My post was in response to merlotgran, and I hadnt seen the last two posts.

The last two posts before mine!

Just bear in mind that first and foremost in HQ's collective little mind, is protecting the site from a legal point of view. (Think about it)

Shall we all have a catch-up pause obi ?

Is it "hotter" about some subjects than others, do you think?

Yes!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

They are hot on any subject covered by law. (I haven't read all of the thread, or what remains of it. Only guessing)

LumpySpacedPrincess I agree that sexism/racism/ homophobia is not a spectrum! Tolerate it as 'a bit of a joke /banter' and that is how we give space to those who will go to extremes. Please note I am not accusing anyone on here of extreme behaviour.
BUT because nobody challenged the unasked for hug/ squeeze/peck on the cheek etc etc. and said it was just lighthearted fun so a minority of (mostly) men felt this gave them carte blanche to take things to the level of serious abuse.

I don't quite understand your bit about nobody challenging the unasked for hug etc? That sounds like victim blaming to me. Do you mean it's women's fault they are harassed because they don't challenge the men who harass them? I'm really sorry if I've misunderstood your post.

Sorry..it does sound like that! I did not mean the recipient of unwanted attention but others who say 'Don't make a fuss..it's just his way' , 'You know what he's like' etc etc and discourage someone from raising the issue.

Here is a theoretical scenario.

You are walking with an older friend (80 or so, brought up in an era when you got married first and had the sex and the babies after) when you meet a mutual acquaintance, an younger unmarried woman who is pushing a buggy. You and your friend both chat in a pleasant way with the mother about the usual things, how are you keeping, does the baby sleep well, what awful weather and so on, and your friend admires the baby and smiles at him, then you go on your way. Later on, over a cuppa, the friend confides that the baby is lovely, and the mother is such a nice girl, but it still makes her a bit uncomfortable to know that she is not married to his father.

Would you judge your friend by
a) How she felt about the situation?
b) How she treated the mother and baby?

b)

I wouldn't "judge" my friend at all. Autre temps, autres moeurs, but I can't really imagine the situation arising - even with my octogenarian friends so I am clearly missing your point.

Elegran, both a and b. I would think she is a nice person with some very out dated views, which I would challenge.

Thank you so much for clearing that up Penstemmon and you have hit the nail on the head, it also takes us very neatly back to the point about gender and how the gender roles are encouraged, and policed.

Women are socialised to take responsibility for men's behaviour, some of the worst misogynists I know are women as they have internalised so much misogyny through society, to a certain extent we all have, it's unavoidable as it's the way our society is set up.

The friend in Elegran's scenario would be a fine example of it.

The point is that - autre temps, autre mores. It takes quite a while for social changes like our attitude to unmarried mothers (that term is no longer in use, but it once was) and to homosexuality. People have had longer to become accustomed to some changes than others. You don't change overnight what has been inculcated into someone in early life, but what they feel need not affect how they behave toward others.

No, but it would be agist not to challenge outdated views. Additionally these views are passed on unless they are challenged.

Challenged gently. You wouldn't demonise someone for their private feelings who had not acted abusively on the strength of them.

It's not just down to age or society, Elegran an open mind is not the prerogative of the young. I have an 88 year old aunt , one of whose granddaughters is a lesbian -never a raised eyebrow, the other had her first baby 20 years ago at 17' pregnant while still at school, mum brought the baby up with support from gran until she could finish her education, again, never a raised eyebrow.
I think the only difference is that, without saying she doesn't talk about it, she never makes a thing of it, if you see my clumsy distinction.

I think that's the answer, not making a thing of it. There may still be a reservation in the back of some people's minds that they can't get rid of, but it is how they act that matters, and that will transfer to other people and other generations.

There were "irregular liaisons" in the past - human nature doesn't change very much - but they were often ignored by family and friends. A SiL's mother had a great-aunt who had lived with a female friend since their college days. It was a known fact that they shared a double bed, both at home and on visits to family, but no-one commented or speculated about what went on in it. No-one even breathed the L word!

Her friend was treated as another aunt and when they both became frail in their nineties and the friend forgetful (to say the least!) their greatniece considered taking them both into her home, where she was already overburdened with an injured adult son, a dear neighbour with Altzheimers and frequent granny duties. (That was forstalled by the death of the friend and the great-aunt's decision to move into a care home near her greatniece, to the relief of the rest of the family)

I have a thing generally about views having to change as time changes. Why? Why should they? Who says so?

And I speak as a middle-aged person

Some people might genuinely believe that homosexuality is sinful. I am still undecided. As I am about so many things.

No way would I utter a word to hurt a gay person though. It's the "sin, not the sinner" thing I suppose. If sin actually exists.

Views don't have to change, obi, they just do. One can think of lots of historical examples if one puts one's mind to it.

This does not prevent any person from holding whatever view they choose to hold but I reckon a lot fewer people now think of homosexuality as a sin than used to. Attitudes to it have changed.

I think obione is right. Genuine feelings shouldn't change to suit the fashion of the day. You have to decide for yourself.