Vegans?

"Very few dairy cows in the UK mate naturally. The majority are impregnated by artificial insemination (AI), which involves restraining the cow so she can’t move and passing a catheter through the cervix of the cow and depositing the semen in her uterus (45).This is an uncomfortable, stressful experience for the cow which can result in injury if carried out by an untrained or inexperienced person (40). According to The Veterinary Surgery (Artificial Insemination) Order 2010, artificial insemination is one of the procedures non veterinarians are permitted to carry out (46). The criteria for being legally allowed to do this are: aged 16 years or over, have never been convicted of an offence relating to the welfare of animals, carrying out artificial insemination as part of an approved course or has successfully completed an approved course. AI training courses take place on working farms, using live animals for practice. "

From Viva!

I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I try to buy milk from shops which give dairy farmers a good deal and from farms which keep herds of cows in good conditions.

Would you think that Marks and Spencer would be one of the best and most ethical food stores?
If so, this could change your mind:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/marks-spencer-farm-kept-cows-in-cramped-huts-8rkxpmcks

Woolliegran I had a long chat with a lady who spins and knits the other week and she said that fleeces can hardly be given away. Not many of them are suitable for making garments but surely there could be many other uses found for them. I have heard of wool-filled duvets but they are very expensive.

Not all sheep are kept for meat, some are kept for their fleece and they do need to be shorn:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34135805

I wonder if Chris felt chilly afterwards?

As I said before, quizqueen you can get all the amino acids you need by combining certain pulses and grains. The most famous must surely be succotash (sufferin' succotash!) There are many different, traditional recipes for this dish (you can find them online) but the combination of butter beans (aka lima beans) and sweetcorn makes it a complete protein.

The best butter bean recipe I've come across can be found here:

www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/gigantes_with_tomatoes_47546
If the link doesn't work, look for Rick Stein Gigantes. It's a BBC recipe. Throwing in a quantity of frozen sweetcorn won't spoil it either.

My roof insulation is made from recycled plastic bottles.
You can buy duvets made from them, too.

Our cavity wall insulation is made of that too, apparently. It looked like fluffy wool

I am a meat eater, all of the food i eat comes from local farms in fact the beef i will roast tomorrow comes from a cow that was in the field outside of my dining room window. I will cook vegetarian meals but vegans can bring their own. I dont expect anyone to go out and buy dairy free products for my DH.

You'll be telling us you killed it yourself next.

What say does your husband have in it? Does he need dairy free products?

Yes Durham DH does need dairy free, as for killing it myself i'm sure the farmer that owned the cow would be well hacked off.

So if he needs dairy free, why do you not expect other people to buy it for him? Do you, in this day and age, carry round dairy free milk and cheese with you, or do others cook dairy free for him?

I guess everyone can do what they want but have no right to put it on others (most veggies/vegans do actually use something along the way that is a by-product of an animal). I personally see myself as a carnivore so eat all meats/offal and find it delicious.

Good for you, saaki.
So because we are forced in some way to use a by-product of animals, does that make what we do somehow suspect or false?
At least we try to avoid animal suffering, unlike you.

I consider myself as nature intended, so eat meat. This has been going on since man existed so, no, I don't feel bad about it at all. I do however find quite a few people that decide otherwise to be rather hypercritical.

No, you are being very hypercritical. I criticise people who say nature intended them to eat meat. How do you know? That's not being hypocritical. No hypocrisy involved in my veganism at all.
You like eating meat. That's different.

Did nature intend you to wear clothes? I presume you do that.
Did nature intend you to have a computer? I know you do that.
You do lots of things that nature has nothing to do with.

Surely if it's natural to eat meat, you should eat it raw, and catch and kill your own.

I am an omnivore but I do try hard not to support inhumane meat production by buying locally sourced meat from butcher which has organic provenance. As it costs a bomb we eat meat less often than I would like to. I know vegetarians find that hypocritical.
Vegan I could not do.
I know the arguments re food production/environment/food poverty etc etc. but I like butter and cheese, yogurt, cream eggs etc.

Humans have eaten meat and used animal products for thousands of years.

My vegan 2nd cousin has 3 pasty and unhealthy teen children because they eat a much too limited diet. They will not eat many veg or pulses so survive on baked beans and pasta or rice with pesto!

But that's your vegan 2nd cousin's fault.
Neither of my children, their wives, their children are pasty and unhealthy.
Even my grandson with autism has a varied diet, because we tell him to and explain why. He has to have a mix of fruit and vegetables at every meal. Admittedly he ate fish until a few months ago, but doesn't any more. He also runs 10k at least twice a week and plays football for at least 3 hours a week. His sister, who has never eaten meat or fish, dances and swims out of school, so she's fit as well. If they were unhealthy they would not be able to do what they do.

Lots of meat eating children have a limited diet. All my grandchildren eat far more vegetables and fruit than their meat eating friends do.

Saying that you eat animal produce because you like it is not hypocritical. It's honest.
Saying you eat it because nature intended you to is hypocritical. Nobody knows. It's just an excuse.

Ref the post about lambs frolicking in the fields, and being upset about what's in store for them, I go back to comments in my OP.

Quality of life is what matters, and a humane death.

If everyone went vegan, there would be NO lambs frolicking in the fields!

Well, there could be phoenix but they would all end up looking like poor Chris in my link above!
Fri 31-Mar-17 23:32:29

All the lambs in the field five minutes walk from my house have disappeared, I noticed today. Couldn't be because it's nearly Easter, could it?
They aren't allowed to frolic for long these days, are they? Not much quality of life. Humane death at six to eight weeks? Very nice.

The natural lifespan of a sheep is the same as the pet dogs you are all so fond of - about 15 years.

No, the are usually around 8 months or can be yearlings djen

www.viva.org.uk/sites/default/files/Lambing-Lies-Leaflet.pdf

A million lambs die because they are born in January. They usually die of hypothermia.

Spring Lamb, Jalima, for the Easter market?

sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/kick-the-easter-lamb-habit/

That's not the lamb gambolling in the fields - or having disappeared from the field behind my house.