What to Do For The Best??

And Ananimous,??you have no reasons to believe what you have said about op is true? ,about their past i mean? Youre being totally harsh and judemental,and just completely mean.the op is trying to be supportive & caring,but seem a bit out of their depth.but i think if they try see both sides of everything they will be more helpful.Good luck to you all.try to have a nicer christmas.with your families.

2 Nannan
Thank-you for kind message and I hear what your saying and of course I would like nothing better to see the grand-children over the Christmas I have got most of the presents and everything ready fir them.
The thing is I am not even angry with her I am more stunned and hurt and by being told get out of my house why do I want you here is just like another nail in the coffin.
What also hurt was her saying she did not want me there when the girls came out of school which would have been in about half an hour and that was the killer for me, after all I had bought all the dinner for them (although this is not about money) So not only being told get out of the house but also she did not want me to see the grand-children is not
something I will be doing again my door is always open to her if she wants to come to me but like I say that was the final straw.

And aninimous possibly is a psychology student of some sort??

If she wants to keep the child you are only left with supporting her. I would not though, support her financially it is not helping her or you. Food if needed occasionally yes, money for debts no, money for going out no.

Apologies..Nannymilly1....l wrongly put in my last post that you looked after the grandchildren full time...l got distracted and then came back to your post. You are still an Angel .....helping your daughter all you can . You have had some very good posters on here and some caring advice from the heart .Ignore all the negative and judgmental ones.

Nannamilly1, our children live their own lives, not always as we hoped they would. There are lot of single parents these days so it's not at all unusual.

We have a (seriously outdated) benefit system that assumes a male partner, if they cohabit, will support an entire family. (I think it's frankly ridiculous that a man should be expected to financially support a woman and her children from previous relationships.)

This situation works as a strong disincentive for cohabitation or marriage and it's such a shame. Children benefit from having secure, reliable adults at home. It's a challenge for just one person.

I don't see why your daughter should rely so much on her parents, though. As a grown woman, she should strive to be independent and look after her children as best she can. Maybe you are a little too helpful and she has become used to it?

3nanny6 - I’m sorry it has come to this point for you but if it matters I think you have made the right decision.

I agree with the poster who suggests she may have self-esteem problems and craves male approval, but she also needs to stand on her own two feet and deal with the messes she gets into herself.

You say We have supported her from day one in everything she does and continue to support her as wholeheartedly as we can. We have loaned money, helped her to move numerous times, purchase anything the boys need, bail her out when she’s in trouble

Has it occurred to you that by doing this you are actually enabling her behaviour? She knows that no matter what kind of mess she is in, you will sort it out and she can continue as she chooses.

There are times when the best love is tough love, and this is what she needs. Of course you must make sure that your DGS are properly clothed and fed, but otherwise leave her to sort her own problems out. Let her face the problems that result from her careless behaviour. Leave the boys with her at weekends. Perhaps see them on a weekday evening (until their bed time) instead. If nothing else that will limit the time she can spend socialising and leading a promiscuous. life. Do no babysitting. Let her find her own babysitters unless she is going to use the evening for a useful purpose like further education classes. If she gets into debt or doesn't pay the rent, let her sort it out herself. You do not say whether she is working or not, perhaps she should be considering whether that is possible.

That was a very nice last response of yours Nannamilly1 ... I think you are a wonderful mother and grandmother and I hope those boys (and any new grandchild should your daughter decide against a termination) continue to grow up with you as a role model. I realise you are worried but I have confidence in you!

Good grief, ananimous how clever you must be to produce a diagnosis of childhood trauma and abuse from an account by a mother of sticking by her daughter through thick and thin - without ever setting eyes on the daughter, mother or the (presumably) abusive grandparents !

That the mother's instinctive support may have enabled her daughter to continue being immature into her adult life is a different matter entirely and I agree with those posters who have said that she needs to back off a little and let her daughter cope with the results of her decisions and actions, while staying on the horizon to help with some aspects of her life.

I’m wondering how many of the posters who are advising tough love have actually used the tough love approach in a situation similar to Nanamilly1’s?

I fully understand the logic behind tough love but, having found myself in similar situation situations with my younger daughter and now her daughter, I can only say that I’ve found it impossible to adopt a tough love approach. When young children are involved, tough love is at odds with the need to make sure the children are supported and cared for both physically and emotionally.

The best I’ve been to allow myself to do is some minor distancing and being a bit less proactive in offering support. My granddaughter continues to make bad decisions but has three beautiful young children she loves dearly but struggles to cope with on her own so I feel doomed to continue to be involved in her life more than I would like for the sake of the children. Fortunately both the paternal grandparents help with the physical support aspects but that can sometimes be a mixed blessing because I often find myself pig in the middle during the many recurring issues. The father is still in the picture too but is able to provide very limited financial support.

I stand by my factual based opinion - also happy for you to have your guestimate too... Let's assume we all only wish to help this lady who obviously has done her very best! - I sit with her in her anguish, and offer factual help - it's not going to resolve the situation avoiding the elephant in the room. Honestly I've been blunt, but why waste this good lady's time when I can see a clear and fast route (my cptsd etc suggestions)?

Read my previous posts again, but this time imagine I'm totally in earnest wanting to help.

At the end of the day we cannot live other people's lives for them and as hard as it is to see others make mistakes sometimes advise is very unwelcome. Support the grandchildren but don't lend money or buy for your daughter as she has to learn to budget herself. Just make sure the children have everything

Tartlet Tough love does not necessarily mean pulling the carpet out from under the troubled child, but just not being too quick to help, and to be thoughtful and selective about the help you do give.

Thank you all again for your posts. I have taken a lot from everyone’s opinions and advice and can see that by continuing to bail her out all the time I am merely allowing her to continue with no excuse or reason to change. For this reason I have tried to gently pull back a little but I do find it hard....

I appreciate the psychology behind every situation and I can see how my childhood may have influenced my own type of mothering. My mother was cold and unemotional and has never been supportive and there has been a lot of dysfunction within our family. I have always been determined to not be a replica of my own mother and to be someone different and loving and supportive to my children and my family through thick and thin. This has been my drive throughout life always striving to better myself in order to give my family a better life.

In all, I appreciate there needs to be a balance but in reality this never cut and dried. It’s good to listen and share a problem with others. You know what they say.. a problem shared ... x

My first thought was personality disorder, I see others have mentioned this too. If this is the case then nothing you can do or say will make any difference but just be there for the 2 boys she has and whether she keeps the baby is really her shout. I think once you accept that you can't change her and no amount of psychological intervention will either then it will be easier for you. I have experience of this and while I was trying to rescue the person it really affected my health for many years. It must be harder for you as there are children involved. Could you get some councilling for yourself to talk through all this, it may help. Look after yourself xx

Monica, I don’t disagree and what you describe is pretty much what I try to practise but my own experience has shown that that’s not what most people seem to mean by tough love. Many people see to see tough love as not providing help at all. Abandonment really.

It’s hard to make sure children have everything they need if no financial help is ever given because needs involve things like warmth and what I’d consider the basic utilities. Yes, the parent should budget for these and control their spending but what if they don’t? People who find managing their money difficult find it especially difficult if they suddenly find themselves living at basic universal credit level.

I'm in the tough love camp.

Wow, what incentive does your daughter have to change. You are handing everything to her on a plate.

Sit down with your daughter and work out a monthly budget. Set down the things you are prepared to help her with. For example buy all the boys shoes (a big expense for any mother) and a few agreed groceries each week when you do your own shopping, and that is all. This will help her financially and put a ceiling on what you will be spending. If she can learn to pay her own way that will be an achievement that might spur her on to improve other things in her life. But you must stick to the rules you set down, no giving in or it won't work.

AND, why does your daughter get every weekend off ? You need time off too. Taking the boys every 2nd weekend is more than enough. What good will you be to her if you run yourself into the ground ?

Why would your daughter need to worry about bringing more children into the world when the bank of mum and dad are there to pay and babysit.

Sorry to be harsh but you are facilitating you daughters lifestyle. Giving someone everything they ask for teaches them nothing.

You did want honesty. Tough is what's needed.

I feel for you, helping adult children is difficult! My dd who is 45 and has borderline personality disorder and diabetes moved in with me at exactly the same time as my husband died 3 months ago. She has brought many pets with her and all her financial woes! I used to help her with money but the bank of mummy has now closed. She keeps putting off getting a job.
Would your daughter consider a tubal ligation after this baby is born?

How tough you can be will always depend on the circumstances. But sometimes just standing back and thinking about it helps. I think Schnauzer1 sums up how you implement a more robust attitude to a child who relies on parents sorting and paying for all her problems.

A woman of 22 isn’t a kid. Most women married and had children in their early 20s when I was young. I had 3 by the time I was 26 and was not unusual. Bustertank No one said it was kids bringing up kids.

Yes, I agree but I think few parents would give unlimited and unconditional support, even those of us other people might consider to be foolish enablers. My guiding principle is whether a refusal to help would be likely to have a negative impact on the children.

My daughter, who received abundant support from us for many years because of mental health issues stemming from a horrific act done to her when she was in her late teens, is completely unwilling to provide any kind and level of support for her own daughter. She regards that as tough love. I think she just doesn’t care.

Sorry, I was replying to Monica.

Your daughter is playing Russian roulette with her own health if she’s not using condoms. HIV and STD’s are still pretty common and she needs to start thinking about that. Maybe this is the wake up call she needs.
You sound like a wonderful mum

I don't think helping a 22 year old woman gently on the way to behaving like an adult is tough love.
Its necessary, natural, and the kindest thing to do.