What to Do For The Best??

NannaMilly 1

I feel your absolute frustration and worry regarding your daughter and GS's, and reading some of the replies it seems that many of us have experienced similar stories about our daughters.

My daughter is a bit older than yours but has now got three children like you have been doing I too have wholeheartedly been supporting her however I am going to say like others on here there comes a time for tough love and somehow although you have asked for advice there will come a time when you just know in your gut that you have fully done all you can do for your daughter and you will step back take care of your own life and leave her to it.

I finally came to that conclusion myself only two weeks ago when after going to my daughters house (because she had asked me to bring food nappies etc; as she was out of money as usual) I had the hoover in my car to do some cleaning up as many on here say there daughters can be untidy and lazy mine is the same. I also had a box of xmas decorations as she has made no effort for the two eldest children.
I took the bit of shopping in first and then said to her can I have cup of tea and then I will help with some clearing up.
Her reply was no I only want the shopping now you can go home. I seriously asked her what her problem was and how could she speak to me like that. She just said stop looking for drama and GET OUT OF MY HOUSE and do not come there and try to clean up as lives her own way.
I walked out of her house and I will never set foot in it again and that is the last I will bail her out for anything as the disrespect is horrendous.
Just like you Nannamilly you will give your all and it will never be enough while you enable her lifestyle. Try to get support for yourself to move forward out of the chaos your daughter is bringing into your life.
Good Luck.

She is still young and despite your help she has had full responsibility of her children and that is hard on such a young person. She is still kicking her heals and will undoubtedly make more frustrating decisions but ..
She loves and cares for her children. She is talking to you, she has you both as a safety net. If the children are loved and looked after, Let her live.
There is plenty of time to mature.

I am afraid you have done what most mothers do - helped your daughter through difficult times, lent her money and so on. By doing so, and I do understand why you have done so, I would have done the same, you have perhaps prevented her from becoming fully adult in the sense that she has to rely on herself, not on you.

Does she want this coming baby? You said she feels a termination is her only option, does that mean that she wants the baby, but feels she cannot give it a good life?
If so, you and she need to consider very carefully whether a termination is the best option or not. We don't want her regretting it so bitterly that it leads to a nervous breakdown.

Whatever she decides to do about the child, please do help her either to get a job that she can keep and which will support her and the children, or to start some or other form of further education, so that she will be able to make her own living.

She is as others have said young enough for this to be feasible. This applies even if she has the coming baby.

Has she told the father of this child about her pregnancy and is he just shrugging his shoulders, or prepared to help? It is his child and morally he should be supporting it, although I do realize that you are worse off in the UK trying to get child support from a biological father than we are in Denmark.

I disagree with those who say that there is something wrong with your daughter because she has had her children at so young an age. To me that is natural and surely better than waiting until you are in your late thirties.

Try if you can without nagging or preaching morality to make her aware of the risks of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. She is responsible for two children and is old enough to know about safe sex.

If she herself uses a pessary and insists the man uses a condom there is less likelihood of contraception failing in the future.

Instead of lending her more money, teach her to budget. If she is on social security, you may feel you need to help with shoes and so on for the children, but please do not lend her more money. Give the children presents of clothes etc. but help your daughter to manage on her income.

I know that social security, or a student's grant won't cover all her expenses, but she needs at least to try to live within her income.

I hope you and she find a good solution to the problems.

@3nanny6 you’ve obviously done something to insult and upset your daughter. Maybe she feels you look down on her etc? Why would you walk away from her rather than understand her side. You may think you’re in the right and doing all you can but she may see things differently. She maybe depressed etc - I would never walk away from my children. There must be more to it from what she said to you. Just because this happened to you doesn’t mean the op should walk away from her dd- everyone’s different.

It’s not natural to want to have children in your teens nowadays!! 30s is much better! Not sure how you reach that conclusion??!!

And given the daughter can’t look after herself it obviously wasn’t right she had children so young. Most teenagers from stable backgrounds now have all kinds of opportunities to explore life and the world and enjoy themselves as an individual before maturing enough to be a parent.

If you google 'why do people self-sabotage?' some interesting articles come up. Not much in the way of solutions unfortunately but you might find some of them worth reading.
Some people believe that it is a coping mechanism for stress. It is hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone who does it and to sympathise when it can feel that they should just make better decisions.
As others have said, you can only support her which is not very helpful but it is probably not a problem that you can solve so much as just relieve.

I think people often put others down as lazy when the truth is they are utterly overwhelmed.

SB 74 I totally will not take your comment personally as I use this wonderful website to help me deal with my problems regarding my daughter and believe me their have been many so please do not judge me as you have no idea of my situation and I only answered Nanna milly from my experience.

I do wonder have you been in the position of something like this with your own children? If so then please comment
but unless you have walked in my shoes then really you know nothing.
Have I ever insulted my daughter the answer is no even when she throws abuse at me I do not retaliate but as I said in my first post to be told Get out of my House is the final straw and yes I am walking away because she told me to and that is what tough love is about.
Have you had the perfect life with your children? you are lucky if you have.

This is a really odd one for me. I do feel for you with this situation and I'm absolutely not judging either the mother or the daughter...

Just offering a few thoughts from the place that I am in, which is an older mother with a teenage DD. I was married but split with my ex - moved far away. I noticed that when I became a mother (even though I was by then 40) certain people in my birth family viewed me somehow as 'irresponsible' in my choices. So I distanced myself from most of them.

Nearly ten years later, my DD is doing really well. I think that we all have our own way of mothering and that it can be really hard to accept someone who is doing it differently from what we might expect or understand as 'good mothering'.

It sounds like your DD does love her kids. All you can do really is look after yourself in this and try to fathom what your own needs are, and be honest about it. I know this is easier said than done. All best pttr

3nanny6,

No family is perfect. That’s the point though. You stick by them despite the issues because they’re your family, even more so your children.

I don’t know the background of your life of course I don’t but there are always two sides to a story. I know that my mum would probably share a very convincing story about me being a difficult daughter where in actual fact it was her unloving and nasty attitude that has caused me to feel resentment towards her. I was very strong headed and strong willed and I would not allow her to bully my dad or push her selfish ways on everyone. My mum was a terrible mum and grandparent but she can’t see it. So there are always two sides and if someone has such anger towards you and, there are no mental health issues, then you have to ask why? I’m not suggesting there’s any fault on your side as I couldn’t possibly know but one persons view is often very different to another’s in these situations.

I would like to share a cautionary tale of one of my neighbors who had a child out of wedlock late in life and raised this daughter up to be a very spoiled ticking time bomb. The girl had mental illness and the Mother felt guilty for raising her without a Father perhaps so she never held the girl accountable for anything and by the time the daughter became a teenager she was totally out of control and began to have one baby after another. The Mother tried her best to continue to help her and get her help but instead of being grateful, the daughter began to be physically abusive to her Mother! The Mother lost her house after going into debt to help her daughter, and had to move into a rental with the daughter and the three grandkids where she stuck it out caring for them and babysitting for the daughter to flit about doing nothing and not working until finally the Mother died of cancer. It was only then that the daughter began to go to church, work steady and accept responsibility for her children but of course by then it was too late for the poor Mom!

My own daughter (who was friends with this family) and I talked about this situation. Even though there are issues with both of us, my daughter told me that she would never do that to me because she knows I wouldn't put up with it. She expressed sadness for the Mother and said that the Mother just let the daughter get away with it and do whatever she wanted to the point where the Mother would hide in her room and eat crackers and tuna cans while the daughter was home. My daughter said the Mother shouldn't have let treat her that way even if she did have mental problems, which eventually she was diagnosed as having. Hang in there and get help and support for all of you please, mental illness is very difficult to deal with and it sounds like there are multiple dynamics going. Good luck!!!!

FC61
I do hope that you are not suggesting that the "coincidence" between your friends two terminations and her subsequent death from breast cancer are in someway linked to some sort of Karma visited upon her. It must have been terribly sad for you and her other friends to have lost someone so young.

If she feels she wants a termination presumably she has thought this through and has decided this is whats best for her,and her 2boys,so please dont dissuade her just for your own reasons,she seems to be sensible where her sons are concerned,and im sure you can be certain that if this is the conclusion she has reached its not a good idea to make her do what you want,rather than what she has chosen.If she has another child,just to please you,it will be 'unwanted' as far as she is concerned,she may well resent it,and then you may have to take the child on permanently.This may be the 'wake up call' she has needed so long.so she may have the termination and start to see sense,start to put it all behind her& pull her life together again.? She loves her boys,but yes she had them young,she still is,so she may have been 'catching up' with what her friends were doing,drinking,clubbing,dating,etc when she was changing nappies.Have you discussed all this with her? About how her life will be once shes had a termination? Its not something a woman does lightly,no matter what their age,so it may sober up her ideas of how shes been behaving?maybe you should babysit a bit less too,thus not freeing her up to go out gallivanting etc.But please dont deter her if this is the descision shes made,its not your pregnancy,its hers,you wouldnt want to make her do something she really doesnt want,& then make her resentful,maybe wanting to 'get away' even more.Is that how shes had 2 young children at that young age already,did you 'persuade' her it was right thing to have/ keep them? Which is why she lets you have them to look after a lot of the time?she loves the children she already has,she cares for them,please dont force her to do what shes showed she doesnt want just because its your way.

I agree with JuicyLucy. Plus you need to assess your own needs (and those of your husband) now and the future. You have done so much for her yet she doesn't seem to have any incentive to get her act together. I think the time has come for tough love and plain speaking. Your health cannot sustain running your own business, bringing up her children, supporting her financially, running your own home and having a meaningful marriage of your own - something will have to give and it will be your health, your income, your retirement. She needs to grow up and fast. She's not the first young mum nor will she be the last but she needs to woman up, she's made some poor choices but she cannot use them as excuses for the rest of her life. The bank of mum & dad needs to close - you have been a soft touch and she's confident you will always indulge her. You love her no one could dispute that but time for reality now.

SB74 Thank-you for the post. I think I read in an earlier post you made to Nannamilly that your younger sister fell pregnant at a young age and you yourself were only young. From that post you also say your mother gave the family no support and wanted your sister to terminate or maybe have the baby adopted. It was a good outcome that your sister had her baby and things worked out well.

I t seems to me that you had a difficult time and your own mother was not very maternal and it seems this is colouring your views when someone mentions about having to walk away from family. I just wonder if you had any counselling for that because perhaps you have carried that around with you for a long time.

You say that someone should stick by family despite any issues particularly if it is your children.
You possibly could not begin to understand how hard it is for me personally to walk away especially from three amazing beautiful grand-children who happen do be in the middle of this.
I thought I should mention that yes there is mental health issues on my daughters side but that does not mean she can be completely abusive to me as their must be boundaries somewhere.
One more thing there is a six year old and a two year old and in between those two children my daughter had two terminations totally her own choice, one I knew about the other she did not tell me until later. As I am a practicing Roman Catholic I pleaded with her not to terminate the baby and to go ahead with the pregnancy but she went ahead and terminated the pregnancy any way and then another one which I did not know until later. Then of course she became pregnant again and kept that one.
Like I firstly posted I still supported her but I cannot take her disrespect any longer and who knows if or even when will she fall pregnant again and she is on self destruct button and it seems I can no longer help her this is why I said please do not judge me, I have done so much for her.

.Maddy 68
The family you mention are really extreme. . . probably as far removed from the ops as they are yours. l would be insulted if l were her. She has not mentioned mental health problems at all..l have two daughters and l know how difficult it can be. op is a great mum and grandma .l know l wouldn't have wanted to be looking after 2 grandchildren full time at age 46. She is an angel.

Just to say that I agree with Nannan2, who has put (very well) into words, just what I am thinking.

3nanny6- i feel for you too,as you were only trying to do what you saw as 'best' for your GC..but,i would hesitate to say you wont go round there again,as that is just 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' as my late mum used to say,and if your daughter just said get out,but DID NOT say never come round again,then thats what you are doing.plus,its nearly christmas,its your daughter,& grandchildren,how can you not want to go be there for them at christmas,or 'holiday season', i know youre angry right now,but its time to see how she sees things? You have made her angry too, and she may see your actions as 'disrespectful' of you,towards her & her wishes? Maybe she does want to decorate for christmas,but do it nearer the time,WITH HER OWN KIDS,HERSELF?? So,give it a few days,let the dust settle,try go visit,with maybe just presents& cards for her& the GC,before christmas,just have a cuppa,,& a 'normal' chat with her,enjoy seeing the kids.but DONT try to clean up,or decorate,or anything else.See how it goes.but please dont cut yourself off from them,especially at this time of year.

It’s difficult to advise what to do for the best Nannamilly1 but in the current situation with your Daughter’s pregnancy, I would have to say that the decision of whether or not to terminate has to be totally her decision and you should not influence her in any way, nor “guilt trip” her, if indeed she does decide on terminating.
I would try to advise her on safer contraception, as others have advise possibly the implant.
As far as her going out and being attracted to older men, perhaps she is looking for security, in some way, from them. If her promiscuity upsets you, ask her not to divulge too many details to you.
Basically, all you can do is continue looking after the two boys and supporting your daughter the best you can.
She will hopefully grow up eventually and she is still very young at 22 so I can understand her wanting to have a bit of freedom and fun, when she can.
As long as she is more careful with contraception and not leading herself into danger.
Best of luck with it all.

This is text book inter-generational family dysfunction.
You will have suffered either emotional, sexual or physical abuse during your childhood, which will cause you to seek approval and people-please. The daughter has been programmed by you, and also your husband (Is he as absent in real life as he is in your post?)
Therefore, yes, you are resposible for her patterns, as your parents are, and their parents etc. Don't beat yourself up about it - just head over to youtube and research thoroughly CPTSD Athena Moberg, Richard Grannon, Narc survivor, narcology unscripted, Daniel Mackler, Alice Miller etc) and you will see why and how you got to this point, and what to do next.
You are an enabler, and too involved in your daughter's decisions. Are you going to stop and set a boundary at 2, 3, 4, 5, -10 children?
You and your husband both need to research childhood emotional abuse.
When we know better, we can do better.
It's not about blame, it's about growing into something more healthy. Good luck - things will improve, if you do.

Thank you,Davida1968,i try to see things from all sides,it really is difficult for all concerned for these situations,but i hope they can all accept what their daughters wishes are,yet still find a way to support them going forward.

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate you all taking the time to consider my dilemma and offer your input.

In response to some of your replies I can assure you that she has not been raised with these values. Her father and I separated when she was very young (2 years old) but she has always maintained contact with him. He’s not been a great dad and never contributed financially but I never allowed this to sway my decisions in allowing him to see his children. When she was 8 I met my dh and he has been a fantastic stepfather and role model and I know she considers him as a father too. I have always worked and studied hard at uni and passed these values on to our children and been very open about sex and contraception and in particular spent an awful lot of time talking to the girls about respecting themselves and their bodies and they always knew they could talk to me. All of our children have a very strong work ethic and never ask for anything except for my daughter which remains somewhat of a mystery to me.

I have tried to get her to do counselling before, and strangely she is at college studying counselling at the moment. She is very bright academically but doesn’t seem able to manage her life in a practical sense.

I will continue to support her whatever her choice regarding her latest dilemma and my grandchildren will always be at the centre of my heart too.

Thank you all.

I am not judging you I was just making a suggestion. Your daughter having mental health issues is completely different and I’m sorry for your difficulties.

I am clouded about mother/daughter relationships as mine has left a bitter taste in my mouth but my relationship with my children has made me understand what being a mother is about. I am fine mentally as I’m quite strong but I just always wish things had been different and am constantly disappointed at the lack of maternal love my mum has.

I agree you shouldn’t have to put up with abuse from your daughter. It is a shame to walk away though, esp with your GC.

I hope you can one day resolve things with your daughter.

Male father abandonment issues probably explain a lot of the problems here