Daughter doesn’t understand

Firstly, the rule in England is now 6, the family will be 7, so you cant go anyway.

Secondly, Your DD is being unreasonable to expect you to take time off to go and stay with her, unless she cleared it and arranged with you before she got pregnant that you would take time off? No, didn’t think so.

So, No you aren’t being unreasonable, but a chat, preferably face to face might be a good idea to prevent this from escalating and ending badly for your relationship with your DD and her family.

Actually if she is a Catholic birth control is not an option. Catholics often have a lot of children. My daughter in laws Catholic mother had 7 children. Her brother has 7. Even if she is not a Catholic her partner may be a new one (to her) and therefore may want his own child.
Having said that I do think she is being unfair to her parents.

I believe adult children should be responsible for themselves
Yes parents when they can are there to help their adult children
But also they shouldn't take advantage, blackmail or use their parents like that.
Stand your ground it's your life too.
And she should tell her partner to do his share too, he sounds a bit of a loser. Can't your daughter have a word with the MIL as it's her soon, perhaps she can wake him up!!!
What's he think paternity leave. for?
Probably producing another child .. Ridiculous!!!

DeeDum, Phloembundle and others - there is no need to sound so sneery about the size of the family, and why Loopylu do you assume the children have different partners?

The daughter may be expecting too much of the OP but there's no need for so many people to be quite so judgemental (about her ability to cope with her family, for example). Even if the mother only had one other child I'd like to think that as women we would want to help out with the older child if it were possible. Each birth is a period of adjustment. Each is different, but they all "take it out of us" to a greater or lesser extent.

If it isn't possible, we couldn't do it. Obviously.

PTWN

Lucca

“ If you can’t help then that’s the situation. It’s sad but it is what it is.”

I don’t think it’s sad. OP clearly works in a school And so you cannot take time off for that sort of thing.
I agree with others that this needs a sit down chat as things may have been said in the wrong way or in haste.

You can actually ask for leave of absence for these situations if you work in a school.
Not that I'm saying op should but you can get this

Well I couldn’t get leave of absence for even a few hours at the end of a day when my mother was very ill in her 90s in hospital 70 miles away. Doesn’t it all depend on the Head? His attitude was that ‘these are guidelines and I don’t have to follow them’. Same thing said to my fellow TA who had time off following the death of one of her children and Occupational Health had advised a gradual return to work. She resigned and I had to resign soon after

PS. He said, ‘We all have elderly mothers who need care”. We are in London. His mother was in Ireland looked after by his sisters! She died shortly after my mother. Sad thing was that his predecessor as Head was just lovely.

The OPs daughter is stressed, pregnant, upset and worried - I expect - unsurprisingly! We are probably all somewhat unreasonable at times like that. So, sitting down, talking through, listening, acknowledging her feelings and all finding a solution together including anything OP can provide if she wants to and definitely including partner who has equal responsibility, seems the best way

Your daughter may need to be reminded that

Every choice comes with a consequence. Once you make your choice, you must accept responsibility. You cannot escape the consequences of your choices, whether you like them or not. Roy T Bennett

Firstly I DO NOT like Emotional Blackmail from anyone and that "Seems" to be what she is trying to set up here.

Secondly she "Seems" to be putting you in competition with other people's parents - it's up to you if you wish to enter into this competition.

When I worked with clients I'd be telling them someone had just handed them a "Sh1t Covered Invitation" and it's up to them to take it or decline it.

Because IF the situation is as you describe then you have been handed a Sh1t Covered Invitation and the competition with other people's parents is leverage to get you to eat Sh1t.

No wonder you are feeling bad. Sadly you can't win in these types of situations. Your choice is either to "Look Bad" or "Suck It Up".

Nasty position to be put in especially by an AC. Seems to be "The parent dilemma" and you're not the first to be in this situation.

So before you choose your response to the "Sh1t Covered Invitation" here's some things to Think about and maybe use to get through the Feeling part of this situation.

This is child No 5 and "her husband doesn't give her much help". I'm wondering just how much more there is to this situation than just the 5th child's forthcoming birth.

I'm guessing her life isn't easy and she's "Feeling" a little lost which is a sad situation especially at a time like this.

However, she has enough experience of being a mother and her husband's wife to know what is involved with the "commitments and logistics" of her life and the life of her family.

So her life situation is Choice, her Right, her Responsibility.

She presumably chose to enter this life situation as an Adult so as an Adult she will have to deal with her choice.

If some of her Life isn't her choice she needs a way of getting clarity and once things are stabilised after the birth she needs to get help to make changes. But that's for the future IF that is the case.

I do understand there are times when we'd like our Mum to help whatever age we are but we can't always have what we want.

Am I right in thinking that before she started this pregnancy she knew your situation re 'commitments and logistics'?

If so is she at all interested in taking into account your "commitments and logistics"

Or put an other way does she wants you to "Useful" because if you were "Valuable" you'd be having conversations about what she'd "Like" not just what she "Wants".

i.e. I'd like Mum not MIL to be there (most reasonable and we understand that) BUT that type of conversation would recognising "Your Right to take care of Your Responsibilities" and would do so without the emotional blackmail or setting up competition with other parents.

Good Luck with this. Try to get yourself into "Thinking" not just 'Feeling" and then may be try talking to her again and get her into "Thinking" not just "Feeling".

Offer what you can do and may be point out to her what she is really doing - emotional blackmail, Sh1t Covered Invitation" competition with others - use the words.

People often don't recognise what they are really doing until it is pointed out to them in such stark terms. I'm sure she has never thought of what she is demanding in these terms.

Have a think about, are these tactics being used on her so it becomes normal to use them on others?

She is probably working only from feeling and pregnancy is an emotionally charged time anyway so her emotions are probably all over the place.

Even if there are other parts of her life that aren't going well for her that are contributing to her behaviour it is Her Life and she Has made choices that for now she will have to deal with.

If she needs Help to deal with those Choices "Asking for Help" is OK but being clear about what others (our Parents) can do to Help us is a necessity.

May be you can Help her be clear about what is really her problem and help her move towards a better way of handling things.

As I said earlier, I'm guessing her life isn't easy and she's feeling a little lost so getting her head clear and her Thinking not just Feeling could be a good thing.

As for what you do, your choice, not an easy one so Best Wishes for a good outcome for you all.

It would be good to differentiate between ‘partner’ and ‘husband’ as it can make a huge amount of difference as to the responsibility felt by the other half. As the poster refers to’mil’ I assume this couple are married.

Phoebes, it matters not a jot on their marital status if he is the father. He has a moral duty to be there.

Yes, the SIL is part of the problem, he doesn’t work (His mum is wealthy) and yet still expects her to always do the school runs , run house etc and demands dinner! He is the father of all the children surprisingly enough yet seems to have little responsibility.
This is something that drives myself and her dad mad.
We’re being asked to pick up the slack all the time and being relatively young grandparents (60 ish) we are still working ourselves, so free time is precious. We have the children for sleep overs on their birthdays , holidays etc
I agree with almost everything that has been said, so thank you for validating my feelings on this.
We do feel that she keeps having children and not thinking of the consequences!

Loopylou I love that saying (assume) I have never heard it before Thankyou its great.

So sorry (for you and the kids) that your daughter chose a loser as father of her kids.

It is not your responsibility to cover that gap.

You've done as much as you can seasalty and have nothing to feel bad about. Your SIL, by choice, doesn't work; nor does he involve himself in the day to day management of his family life. You and your DH, on the otherhand, have to work to keep an income coming into your household. Yet your daughter has somehow come to the conclusion that the responsibility to drop everything and rush to her aid is yours. It's not. She chose to marry a man who is useless. She chose to have a large family with him. These are their choices and their responsibilities. They'll manage.

Can i just say, there really isn't anything wrong with a large family. We have a large family, both work, support ourselves and our children.

Having had to do that under times of great stress, I know how it can feel if you don't have enough support but that doesn't make you a bad parent because you feel unable to cope at times.

Having a large family is entirely a personal choice and we have to assume that those who make that choice, do so with full cogniscence of the hard work and responsibilities that come with it. Support that is given is not an entitlement; it's a gift that can either be given freely or within the parameters of the support giver. No one has the right to expect, or demand, help to support your life choices. seasalty has already given her reasons as to why she and her husband are unable to fulfil their daughters demands and that should be enough.

She is being irresponsible having 5 children anyway. Who pays for them all, us?

Suggest explaining contraception, condoms, the pill, sterilization, vasectomy etc, all a bit late, but may stop any more!!!

Sorry, not, in this day and age, should not be happening.

SeaSalty, do you feel you're walking on egg shells to avoid rows?
The picture you paint is of a father of five who contributes little if anything to his family. If he can afford not to work, the least he can do is his share of the practical and emotional work involved in running his family.
Why is your daughter looking to you, rather than her husband and mother in law. You live four hours away, husband lives with her, mother in law close by.
Sounds like you have grandparent relationships with your gandchildren. Do you fear losing contact if you're honest and ask where her husband is in all of this.

Phoebes - many many younger couples choose not to marry. It doesn't in anyway excuse the father from his parental responsibilities. It's also a tad judgemental to assume it does

I can't agree with your post at all SJV07, people can have as many children as they wish; it's no one's business but their own. But, having made that choice, they need to be able to cope with it, alone if necessary and not expect any support with raising them. And I'm not sure why you're assuming that "it's us who are paying for them"? seasalty has said nothing of them claiming any benefits and, in any case, that would have nothing to do with her question at all.

Totally agree with Bibbity. If she can’t cope why does she keep having more children?

Why are we assuming she can't (usually) cope? Irrespective of the useless partner?

As you say, your daughter has a partner who gives her extremely little help.
He needs a kick up the backside.
Why isn't he on call?

Sorry I don’t agree that people can have large families if they want. The world is over populated and it’s irresponsible regardless of who’s paying. If the mother concerned can’t cope and feels her own mother has to step in and help it’s also selfish.

NotSpaghetti

Why are we assuming she can't (usually) cope? Irrespective of the useless partner?

Because of the tantrum She’s throwing over her parents not dropping overturning to cater to her wants.
If she can’t find childcare for the labour her option are
Home birth
Or her husband.
She needs to seriously stop the entitlement.

And I hoe stay would leave her to struggle a bit or she may set her sights on number 6.