What would you think if you received this?

And yes we do need to accept that future generations will be clear about what we are doing wrong and want change but the other side of that is that, what is happening is growth. If we were to plot it on a graph I am almost certain that changes to parenting are slowing as need for change is slowing.

We aren't going to go back to smacking as one example.

Maggiemaybe

Good for you. We can all give our own anecdotal evidence, it means nothing. I could give you chapter and verse of my own daughter’s experience as a first time lockdown mum, and that of her friends in her virtual NCT group. Completely different to yours, but they prove nothing.

This, though, speaks volumes:

www.itv.com/news/2020-12-18/how-covid-restrictions-are-fuelling-a-postnatal-depression-crisis

But I literally said I couldn't source it.
But it is my experience. And also many of the PMD cases were worsened due to horrific cuts to services. They were due to lack of actual medical care. Our NHS is in a shameful shambles and letting mothers down.

So you'd think the last thing they would need to a selfish relative on top.

VioletSky

A lot of mothers did report that lockdown gave them better bonding time as a family which does tie in with the needs of the new mum in this post.

Not only mothers, but fathers too. Fathers who got to work at home and spend more time as part of their family. Bliss.

And the ones that didn’t have the luxury of wfh? Who were perhaps out there working on the front line, unvaccinated, adding the worry of bringing infection back to a newborn and a vulnerable new mum? How about young single first time mums, unable to access help from family or friends at a time when none was forthcoming from the professionals? Perhaps not quite so blissful for them.

Sorry, I’ve helped this thread digress from the main topic and will call it a day here. But all this talk of the wonderful lockdown experience really gets to me. It really wasn’t that way for many, many people.

I know. But their misery doesn't stop others joy.

Maggiemaybe

And the ones that didn’t have the luxury of wfh? Who were perhaps out there working on the front line, unvaccinated, adding the worry of bringing infection back to a newborn and a vulnerable new mum? How about young single first time mums, unable to access help from family or friends at a time when none was forthcoming from the professionals? Perhaps not quite so blissful for them.

Sorry, I’ve helped this thread digress from the main topic and will call it a day here. But all this talk of the wonderful lockdown experience really gets to me. It really wasn’t that way for many, many people.

Please don’t think I’m naive enough to not understand, that for a lot of people, the pandemic itself (and it’s consequential lockdowns) has been heartbreaking and an endurance test that no-one should have to be put through.

My point was, hopefully, illustrating that families who were able to spend some time together (without interference from well-meaning grans) anecdotally reported better family outcomes.

There are reasons why individuals today; from midwives, to breastfeeding counsellors, other new parents, doulas, are recommending this bonding and recovery period.

I’m aghast at the level of selfishness that some well meaning grans are displaying on this thread.

For some people to assume new parents will be on their knees sobbing, and failing as parents within the first couple of weeks is distasteful. It also shows what little faith grandparents have in their AC to parent well; and, for me, those type of parents are the ones I definitely wouldn’t want to be seeing during the first few weeks after giving birth.

My DC are toddlers, with another on the way, I’ve never requested help in the form of babysitting either - so those mentioning turning their back on AC when they request childcare, don’t count that your AC will actually want your ‘help’.

I’m torn. It’s hard to judge unless you know the ins and outs of the relationship. If my daughter presented me with such a directive, I’d be very hurt and withdraw emotionally. So I think this kind of thing could damage future relationships. On the other hand, when I see how needy and demanding some grandparents are, I wouldn’t blame the parents. In my opinion, she should make an exception for grandparents, who have the most invested in the grandchildren. I’d allow parents to visit, and close family but give myself two weeks off from friends. The situation was handled really badly and tactlessly.

I agree that "those new parents will realize they need help and they will come to the gp begging for help" is a grandparent fantasy.

It may happen or it may not.
I agree that the lack of faith of grandparents on their ac's ability to adjust is very self serving and selfish

There do seem to be quite a few young members on gransnet now, some of whom seem to have quite negative views of our generation as parents and now grandparents. Maybe this is a reflection of your own experiences and if so, I’m sorry. I find it quite strange that you have this idea that we were abusive; smacking, leaving babies to cry etc. My children were born in the 80s and in my experience we were incredibly child-centred. Smacking was definitely frowned upon, feeding on demand was the norm, attending to your baby as soon as they cried expected. I think the ‘sleep-and-everything-else-training’ approach à la Gina Ford actually came later. When my daughter had her first baby 11 years ago we found our approach was very similar, I learnt new things but she also found some of the old ways were still current. She is a brilliant mum - better than I was - and I’ve been privileged to share in my grandchildren’s lives. We could all learn something by listening to and respecting the different generations’ experiences.

Bibbity

Calistemon

That message is a copy and paste! It's been doing the rounds on the mum groups! It crops up constantly! Emojis and all!

Oh dear, so not even a personal message to convey the new parents' wishes to their friends and supposedly loving family.

How impersonal.

Why does that matter? It fit the bill for what she needed. Who cares if she came up with it or someone else. Job done. Everyone on the same page. If they aren't happy with it they can manage their own feelings. She doesn't have to care about such pointless things.

When I saw the note on page 22 about it being a copy and paste of something doing the rounds, that to me altered the whole ambience of this thread.

So "the niece" did not author it, so not what she has constructed.

It was much more like "a standard letter" that some businesses send out. Sent nevertheless but not specifically written, so not directed as such and not tailored to individual circumstances..

So perhaps the recipient might regard the message in a different light now.

Some of us were discussing the meanings of emoji hearts of various colours very early this morning (later part of page 20 and onto page 21).

"We could all learn something by listening to and respecting the different generations' experiences" of course we could *nightowl.

My mum and GM offered advise when both our boys were born, some I took and some I didn't, none of it was abusive; smacking and leaving a baby to cry I hasten to add.

"The situation was handled really badly and tactlessly" that sums it up for me Sharina. It's all about the delivery isn't it and just because somethings have changed, it doesn't mean that what they've been changed from was wrong.

* Why does agreeing with new mums rules make people not old enough to be here?*

Absolutely nobody has said this.

I would say the consensus on here is that the ideas are fine but the message/text etc is OTT.

However it appears that bibbity among others prefers to interpret these views as a bunch of ancient crones who did everything wrong

Bibbity. But it's posters here who don't seem to accept that things have changed and that a new mother should do what is best for her and her baby and not her demanding mother

Wrong. Try to actually read what people write.
Once again…it’s not that, it’s the impersonal way it was done.

Wrong again. Many have wished ill and failure on her to teacher her a lesson.
They have said that a mum isn't just any relative (false) and that she is being precious.

Another example of twisting words or possibly a total fabrication Lucca.

I agree with your summary of the consensus on here and how one or two posters interpretation of our views is IMO rather insulting but hey ho it's only 'entertainment' after all.

It's pretty miraculous though how "a bunch of ancient crones who did everything wrong" managed to get their babies all the way through to adult hood isn't it.

And all those children are happy with how their parents raised them? All have fantastic relationships now?

No qualms about the way it was done?
Abusers still manager to have children who make it to adulthood. Doesn't mean they were good at parenting.

I have no qualms about the way we raised our boys Bibbity, none whatsoever.

The idea that the mark of good parenting is that the children are alive is a very weak flex.

Btw, comparing birth plans with this email is apples and oranges

The birth plan is how the mother wishes for her birth.
Obstetric violence is very well known
Now, emergencies out of the control of the mother happen and the plan cannot be followed

The list of rules sent in the email is different case.
The parents are in full control (as it should be) of how they want to adjust.
If it doesn't work for them, they have the right to change their minds

These emails exist for a reason - pushy relatives trying to get their paws on the baby disregarding the parents has happened in all generations.

And the idea that only children who didn't have a good childhood with decent parents are unhappy with how they were raised is also "a very weak flex".

I don't think you used that correctly.

And also anyone can be unhappy. Where have I said otherwise?

I haven't said you've said otherwise have I.

OneofthoseDILs 'My point was, hopefully, illustrating that families who were able to spend some time together (without interference from well-meaning grans) anecdotally reported better family outcomes'.

Don't lump all grandparents together - my son and DIL were not happy at being holed up in their house during lockdown with a 3 year old and 6 year old; the children missed their grandparents and friends and were constantly asking when they could see us and come for a sleepover. Not all adult children relish not seeing their parents or think they are interferring. My sons and gorgeous DIL are lovely with me, very caring and thoughtful. And for the record I would never drop in on my children (or anyone) without ringing first; wouldn't dream of giving them childrearing advice; am more than happy to help whenever I can; am very easygoing and when they are happy, I am happy. No interferring from me, just support when needed and when they ask - like lots and lots of grandparents.

Curlywhirly

I don't think I've met a good parent who didn't constantly worry they weren't being one