Expectations and obligations?

I think it depends entirely on the individuals.

In an ideal world people had a loving and supportive childhood with siblings they get along with, and would love to be able to have family to care for, and be cared by, but the reality is that families are complicated, and resources such as time and finances may be scarce. Distance also plays a part.

Also, not every family is/was a happy one either, and for mental health reasons it may be impossible to care for an elderly abusive parent.

Assumptions made in the past that the youngest daughter would do all the heavy lifting and be a carer for elderly parents need to be challenged.

Poppyred

How do you propose to end your life painlessly biglouis?? Please tell.
I think most people would rather do that than be a burden to any one.

I don’t agree. I will put things into place so I’m NOT a burden, if you have children suicide lives with them forever. My biological father, my maternal grandfather and my sister-in-law all committed suicide, it’s a huge burden to deal with for those left behind!

I would never ever do that!

It's a very interesting topic and something I struggle with on a daily basis. My mother is 101 now and still lives on her own, does her own housework and a bit of gardening. She has lived on her own like this for 24yrs now.
I have a very difficult relationship with her as she is one of those very interferring kind of mothers, who is always criticising every decision I make in life and always has. I try my best to do as much as I can but I have a lot of mental health problems and now some physical ones too so I feel I should priorities my own health first.
My mother of course doesn't give a damn about anything going on in anyone's life but hers and is only concerned about who can sort out her medical appointments, take her for hospital appointments, phone her multiple times a day as 'that is what family do'.
She isn't short of money and could quite easily pay for someone to do the multiple jobs around her home and garden that she can't do but refuses to as she 'doesn't like strangers in the house'. I don't particularly like strangers in my house either but I wouldn't expect my other half or my grown up son to do them for me.
I have never seen my mother do anything for anyone else. She has no friends and I can see why! If she doesn't get her own way with things she threatens to kill herself and it gets really exhausting listening to it every day.
Although always complaining about being lonely she has never once offered even a cup of tea to my other half and I when we visit and we have to phone first to make sure it's convenient.
A few weeks ago we lost our much loved dog and I found it impossible to talk on the phone about it. I turned up uninvited at my mum's house, probably not my wisest move, still feeling extremely upset. My mother opened the door, poked her nose out and told me it wasn't a convenient time and shut the door in my face. She is then surprised when I feel upset.
Possibly I am not a good daughter but I don't know how someone who has never been a good mother can expect their children to drop everything for them.
If my mother decided to live in a retirement home it would make things so much easier for us, but she won't leave her current home so not much we can do. She would never go into a care home either but I can understand her reluctance as I have seen how bad they can be.

I was was orphaned at 15 so have never had to look after my parents, I do look after two of grandchildren once a week, & would love to be able to do the same for my other two but they live in Europe. I would not expect or want my sons to give me personal care other than maybe a lightbulb change or the ilk

I would crawl over hot coals and a bed of nails to be able to help out with my grandchildren, but my help isn't wanted. I would also look after my parents, not because I feel obligated but because I feel it's the right thing to do.

As a child first my great aunt came to stay, she died. Then grand ma, she died. My other great aunt stayed in a boarding house for 4 ladies near her nephew and came to stay for a week on a regular schedule. She was 99 when she came to my wedding. This all seemed quite normal and desirable. Today families are scattered and boarding houses have become registered homes and businesses. We had my husbands father for 3 years living with us before he died and later my mother for 2 years before she died. All the time I had paid help. Now I have had a new knee and for the first time paid some one to shower me. We have to learn to use paid help in our own homes.

I am astonished at the ease that people show in saying to their children "Put me in a home". Have you seen what these places charge? On average for just an ordinary place £1,500.00 per week. How does anyone afford this? Even if you re-mortgage your home to pay for it, how long will the money last with fees like that? And then what? Do you just hope to be dead before the money runs out? The whole thing is terrifying. I want to be independent for the rest of my life.

We all do.

Kwest no one can afford it, that’s why the property of the person needing care has to be sold to pay the fees.
When all monies have run down to £23,000 the council take over paying for care, but if someone is in a 5* home they may have to move to a 3* because what the council pays will not cover the full cost, or the family have to agree to make a top up payment to cover the difference,
People paying independently for their own care are usually charged a lot more, which subsidises those being paid for by the LA.
I think we would all wish to be independent, but that’s not always possible.

So if someone needs care, doesn’t own but rents their home, has savings under £23,000 their fees are paid for by the local authority.

There was a thread on another forum expressing regret that the lives of older people were being prolonged (by medical science) to the extent that some were merely eking out a miserable existence with no quality. This in turn threw a burden on society as a whole and also on their children whose lives might be destroyed by the pressure of providing care.

I know that when my grandmother reached her 90s she was physically very frail and could no longer do most of the things which gave her pleasure. She expressed to me the wish that she would be content if "the lord should take me". She would never have taken her life because she viewed it as sinful but she felt she was living on borrowed time for many years.

You can make living will, and opt out of anything that will prolong your life.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the cost of care, even the cost of care coming in to the home. Not all are going to be able to afford that. It can be astronomical. At the higher end of dependency in some parts of the country it's £1000 per week.

We may not even have a choice if we get dementia. I do hope children/relatives would step in, if we become extremely frail and vulnerable. That's what 'family' means to me. It's not just one way towards our children.

Again (on another forum) it always seems to be one child who provides the care for elderly needy parents and when siblings exist they disappear. In situations where there is a golden child/scapegoat dynamic it is often the golden child who disappears and the "black sheep" is guilted into becoming the sole career. And that person is nearly always female.

We moved house three years ago to help my daughter when she adopted two young children, so that I could give her as much help as I could as she is single and works full time.
We would never demand help from her, but she is a generous spirited person and I know that she would do as much as she could to help is, should we need it. This doesn't necessarily mean actually looking after me, it could be that I need somebody to help me to organise care, or even chose a care home in the end.
I doubt very much that my other children would offer to help but then I have not needed to give them help either and they are very different personalities.

Again (on another forum) it always seems to be one child who provides the care for elderly needy parents and when siblings exist they disappear. In situations where there is a golden child/scapegoat dynamic it is often the golden child who disappears and the "black sheep" is guilted into becoming the sole career. And that person is nearly always female."

This

I'm divorced but still in contact with my ex MiL who lives about 70 miles away. During the pandemic she became quite paranoid, losing things and convinced there were intruders coming in the house and stealing them. She had no relatives nearby and my ex, who was the only person who could realistically visit, made no effort to do so, so it was me who went to visit once visits were allowed. Both my adult children try to visit when they can, and thankfully she eventually accepted the need for anti anxiety medication and is no longer suffering the paranoia. She is however still very vulnerable, in her 90s and losing her sight. Meanwhile her other son, who lives abroad, still turns to her for financial help and advice constantly. My kids think this is shocking and that he and their dad should do more for her.

I have to assume that their upbringing by me as a single mum during their teenage years and our relationship ongoing is the reason for their feelings. Hopefully it bodes well for the future if I need their support, though I hope not to be a burden to them.

I didn't do very much for my own mum as she became more needy as I lived 200 miles away and worked, while my brother lived 3 miles away. He often complained about having to do stuff for her and said "It's all right for you being so far away" while I was the one who had the worry whenever I phoned and got no answer! Eventually the couple who did her cleaning and shopping said "if you're worried about her, phone us and we'll go and check." Soon afterwards she agreed to move into sheltered accomodation and it was a great relief all round!

Personally I think we have a duty towards the older generation, but now I'm part of that! My DS and family live 200 miles from me, and despite the distance I have visited to help with childcare on occasion, so yes, it works both ways. But as I become older I feel fairly confident that I won't be abandoned. I hope to downsize and move closer in the hope it will benefit us all.

Trouble is, these days there are not enough care workers or care homes to support people who are unable to look after themselves. It can be very hard looking after an elderly member of your family, but the alternative is very sad. As a care/Reablement worker I am often shocked at how some people have neglected themselves and not asked for help. i.e malnutrition, dirt encrusted bodies, nails an inch long, dirty clothes, filthy houses and overgrown gardens.
Some of these people have children but they seem to be blind to the problems. Some people are referred to us by their GP, hospital, neighbours or paramedics.
Unfortunately we can’t force people to change the way they live but It’s best to be firm and honest but kind.

I know people like to think care homes are all hellholes, but all the ones I’ve known personally (DM, FiL and an aunt) have been perfectly nice. Obviously I’d rather not end up in one, because I really don’t want dds’ inheritance to disappear in fees, but equally I’d hate to be a burden to them.

Maybe I’ll have to find a handy local hit man to see me off when I feel I’m getting too decrepit to look after myself - assuming I’m not lucky enough to drop dead from a heart attack or stroke, or just die quietly in my sleep. 🙂

Both of the care homes my relatives went into were excellent. In each, seperate, case they were in care for 6 years and we had no problems. Biether was this because they were very expensive. One was very reasonable and the other slightly more expensive, but not excessively.

If I have to go into care, my children have strict instructions over the necessary views from my window, the style of property, and my food requirements.

I lived about a 15 minute drive from my parents and saw them several times a week. Dad outlived Mum by 8 years and missed her terribly. I used to see him at least 5 times a week - meeting him to walk the dogs late afternoon on three or four days and he always spent Sunday afternoon with us. He was a tower of strength when DH died suddenly in his early fifties. I would have done anything for my parents because I loved them - they would have done the same for me. I was so lucky Dad was able to stay with me during lockdown for the last 8 months of his life. I have a very good relationship with my younger grown up son and his wife ( just as well as we will eventually be neighbours!) but hope I will be independent for many years yet.

I moved 600 miles when I noticed every time I visited my parents' tgey seemed less able. This was inspite if having 3 older siblings whose children ranged from late teens to 12 years. Mine were all three under 5. Would I do it again, No. I was 1l5, 14 years younger than siblings and basically did not accept my parents were old and deteriration normal. There was no expectation on me, I wanted to do it and DH understood. I have absolutely no expectations that my children will look after me, they too do not live nearby anyway, nor would I go to live with them.

I have three daughters. I have told them all that if I am no longer able to look after myself to find me a care home but to visit me at least once a month each. If I have dementia then to visit me when they can to their own abilities because my Mum used to be really cross at me and accused me of not visiting even though I went twice a week at first.

Ask the staff if you and your husband can have lunch together, away from the other residents.

You could maybe take in something you know he enjoys to eat.

Have a coffee with him in a quiet corner, or go to his room to watch some tv.

Ooh.
Wrong thread