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Why are people so spiteful?

(113 Posts)
Astitchintime Tue 24-Sept-24 07:56:49

Not sure if this is I the correct forum but here goes.

I am part of a crafting group, we all live quite locally and we got together to help and support local charities - this has not only helped those charities but also, in some cases, our own mental health too.

Everything has been 'ticking along' nicely, or so I thought. We had a social media group chat for sharing ideas and planning projects to raise money and we were all part of that.

Just yesterday I bumped into one of our members who is the admin for the group page. I will refer to her as Susan (not her real name). We chatted for a few minutes and then Susan announced that she was creating a fresh group message page and I was to look out for it later in the day but to not mention it to any one else. Wanting to get the shopping done and get out of the rain I just said 'Ok, I will take a look this afternoon'. We went our separate ways and I thought nothing of it until last evening.

On opening the new group forum I found that one of the members was not included, I will call her Jenny (again, not her real name). Jenny is a really lovely person, lives close to me with her OH and they would both do anything to help anyone and do a great deal to help Susan who lives alone - they give her lifts when her car is off the road, take her bins in, help with heavy gardening jobs, done her shopping when she's unwell etc. I also believe they have lent Susan money.

I phoned Susan as I though it was an oversight and perhaps she had forgotten to add Jenny but she claimed that she had not forgotten her, she simply didn't want her in the new group which she had created exclusively for planning lunches, day trips, visits to exhibitions, coffee & chat meet-ups etc.

I could see that others in the group were 'chatting' online and creating car-share rotas and setting a timetable for events well into the new year. They had even added my name to the rota without my specific agreement.

This does not sit right with me and I am now in the dreadful position of knowing that one of our group is being singled out and excluded. I know Jenny very well and I also know how much it would hurt her to know about the second group and the way Susan, and I suspect some others, have spitefully engineered all this.

I am beginning to feel like I no longer want to be part of the group but if I do I'll lose contact with the wider community. The toxic element that is emerging is tainting everything.

Why are people so spiteful?

M0nica Tue 24-Sept-24 07:58:55

Becasue that is how some people are. nature? nurture? life experience? No idea. They just are.

Grandmabatty Tue 24-Sept-24 08:01:25

I would withdraw from the group. Do you really want to be associated with toxic people like that?

Marydoll Tue 24-Sept-24 08:02:35

How truly awful. I would not want to be part of a group like that. Spiteful and huertful. Bullying, just like the school playground.

It happened to me a long time ago, when colleagues excluded me from the get togethers, I used to have with them.
A member of staff, who was angry that I had got a promotion over her, started spreading lies about me. Unfortunately, some of my friends believed them.
It really hurt.

Greenfinch Tue 24-Sept-24 08:04:50

Yes I would have to leave if it were me. These underhand antics are toxic.

eggplant Tue 24-Sept-24 08:05:35

Sadly , this sort of thing is going on all the time. The relative anonymity of the dreaded WhatsApp group gives people the chance to play out their petty power games. Its very easy to tip into negative thinking and harder ( I find) to develop the resilience needed to withstand this stuff. Could you simply not respond to any messages?

Bad enough that it goes on in the work place, but craft and helping others is supposed to be fun!

MissAdventure Tue 24-Sept-24 08:07:39

I would definitely withdraw from that group.

I think wherever there are groups of people, this kind of behaviour is likely,in some form or another, but I would not want be associated with it at all.

keepingquiet Tue 24-Sept-24 08:08:11

Well done to you for calling this out. It is nasty and underhand behaviour. Some people just never move on from the playground.
Something similar happened to my daughter when some mums organised a meet-up and deliberately left some mums out. My daughter, to her credit, organised a separate one and invited everyone. It didn't go down well but she made a point.
Unfortunately it is human behaviour and some people just don't grow up.

V3ra Tue 24-Sept-24 08:12:52

Have all the rest of the group noticed that Jenny has not been included? I see you think some of them might be complicit.

I'd feel like reminding Susan about all the help Jenny, and her husband, give her. If she's still expecting all that then she's breathtakingly two-faced.

What a very unpleasant situation to be in.

Ziggy62 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:20:59

I remember some years ago, 2 mums organised a Christmas eve get together every year for members of local toddler group. One year they decided not to invite one of the mums and her 3 children, so I decided not to attend. One of the mums called to ask why I wasn't there, I replied "I'm popping along to have coffee with K, I wouldn't like to think of her being alone".
Apparently she came off the phone quite upset and rightly so, it was a cruel nasty thing not to invite one person
I would have to withdraw from the private group

nanna8 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:23:29

I’d either leave the group or invite Jenny to join - just oops, your name was accidentally left off!

Imarocker Tue 24-Sept-24 08:23:42

This used to go on long before Whats App and social media. Years ago I was a member of a large group that met once a month for a lecture and every week for coffee. We always went to the group parties but I was well aware that we were not invited to one member’s Annual Boxing Day Party and to another’s NYE party.

Tenko Tue 24-Sept-24 08:27:40

How horrid . Unfortunately some people behave as if they’re still in the playground. I live in a village with several WhatsApp groups. One had another group formed which excluded one lady . I voiced my disapproval as did some others . It turned out one lady disliked the excluded lady .
What I find so spiteful in the ops post is that Susan has welcomed Jenny and husbands help and has still excluded her.
Well done op for calling out Susan . I would stay with the group but make it clear to Susan that it’s not on to exclude Jenny .

Babs03 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:28:15

How horrible.
Poor Jenny!
If I were you I would consider leaving as others have said but would firstly ask Susan why Jenny isn’t included, I know you have already broached this but perhaps putting her on the spot face to face will at least make her feel uncomfortable about it.
Am just wondering if others in the group feel as you do. Is this Susan a bit of a ringleader?
In any case you don’t need the drama, and despite having got a lot from this group perhaps now is the time to bid farewell, before they could do the same to you. Who knows?

MissAdventure Tue 24-Sept-24 08:29:05

Some people seem to enjoy having an entourage to bouy them up, I think.

It's much the same with groups of monkeys, and can mean the difference between life or death for them.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:32:57

I’d stay if a FEW of the original group were not in the new group, but leaving just ONE out? No way José! That’s incredibly mean. What is Susan thinking? It WILL get out - it always does - and then the hurt will be laid bare for all to see.

Your dilemma is compounded because the group forms a large part of your social life right now. I feel for you ASIT as it’s ’this or nothing’ it seems.

Is the old WA group going to run parallel? No mention of outings perhaps but still deciding/chatting on projects? How would Janet get to know about them otherwise?

I’d stand with Janet. “I am Spartacus” comes to mind! I’d tell Susan “on reflection I don’t want to join the new group, I’ll just stick to the messaging via the old group if that’s okay, it’s worked well for so long”.

Nannarose Tue 24-Sept-24 08:35:16

Well, I understand you not wanting to withdraw from a major part of your social life, and I understand very well how making things helps mental health.
So, my suggestion would be to make a time to visit Susan for an insight into her actions. This will take courage, but if your default is to leave the group anyway you have little to lose. I would ask Susan what her reasons are. You don't even at that point, have to confront her, you can say something like 'I see', You can ask if Susan knows what others in the group think - again you don't have to enter into a discussion., simply listen to what she says. My apologies if you have done that, but your post only indicated that Susan didn't want Jenny, not her reasons.
Then, if you want, you can give it a few days' thought (you can always ask to be taken off rotas, saying you are not sure what you are doing).
If you do need to withdraw from the group, I hope you can find another. There are several within easy driving distance of me (though not by public transport!). Maybe you & Jenny set up an alternative?
My sympathies in dealing with this, it gives one a horrible feeling.

J52 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:36:42

WhatsApp makes this sort of behaviour common. In the past it was easy to mingle with different groups even if they excluded others. A bit like a Venn diagram of friendship groups. Now if you’re not on the list, you’re out!
It happens in the village I live in and is difficult to navigate if you’re friends with people in other groups. I’d try to float along with the people whose company I enjoy regardless of what the group is. I’d definitely invite Jenny to an activity with some of the more pleasant others. Also, I’d be unavailable for some of the arranged outings.

Smileless2012 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:39:22

As M0nica has posted because that is how some people are.

I wouldn't get involved in any of the new group's activities or take part on the messaging page, apart from messaging on there that I wont be because I don't approve of Jenny being left out.

You may find that you're not the only one who disapproves.

bikergran Tue 24-Sept-24 08:44:59

If you are brave enough (it takes guts sometime) then I would ask the perpetrator (in front of all the others) why the other person has been left out and make sure that everyone know about it and see what the reason is. Although they must already have noticed that one name is missing.

That is truly selfish, horrible obviously someone with no conscience what so ever. it is sad that no others (that you know of) have stood up and challenged it. But I do know it goes on .

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:45:30

Who the heck is Janet? Ha! I meant Jenny of course!

eggplant Tue 24-Sept-24 08:47:29

As an aside I find a lot of " talk" about people being dropped for being toxic, or negative or draining. Ghosted.

Its horrible, so unkind.

Luckygirl3 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:50:32

I think that the only option for you is to talk to Susan. To ask her why she has done this. To say it does not sit right with you.

I belong to a group of women who raise funds and organise social activities in the village. We have a Whatsapp group and it is immensely supportive, especially for those like me who live alone.

Now and again one person might bend my ear about another and I have perfected the art of non-committal grunts. I never engage with any minor fallings-out.

But this is so blatant that I do not think you can ignore it, although I do understand your reluctance to risk your membership of a group that is an important part of your social life.

Redhead56 Tue 24-Sept-24 08:52:43

It’s jealous behaviour that has not left the playground a kind of personality clash. I would find great delight in inviting Jenny then saying publicly to Susan “oh you must have forgotten to invite Jenny so I did”
You could relish the facial expression from Susan. I wouldn’t let such childish behaviour be a reason to leave the group I would stay just to annoy it is the season for mischief.

OldFrill Tue 24-Sept-24 08:56:21

M0nica

Becasue that is how some people are. nature? nurture? life experience? No idea. They just are.

Because it goes unchallenged. Some ego decides to rule the roost and others follow.
I'd call it out publicly on the group, asking if members are aware one has been left out and how would they feel if it was them. They'll probably delete you or start yet another group but one or two may stand with you.