EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

I would be more than happy to support trans people and whoever else wants separate secure facilities too.

What I’d really like to know, from all those who know a trans man, are related to a trans man etc, is why there has been no uproar about these trans men using the male toilets?

Did we not have a recent post, on another but similar topic thread in which a poster said that her husband had confirmed their was absolutely no problem with trans identified men using the gents and he didn't know of any man who would. Hmmmmm.... who was it now.......?

Luminance

I would be more than happy to support trans people and whoever else wants separate secure facilities too.

And exactly how do you propose to do that?

It's easy to say we 'would be more than happy to support' people, but not so easy to accept that there is no way of doing so. Are you going to raise money for small businesses to pay for the plumbing and building work involved in installing more toilets? Or pay more tax so they can be added to public buildings?

Good for you if you can afford to do that, but not everyone is in that position, so are you 'happy to support' those who can't afford to pay more? Without a practical suggestion, declaring your nebulous 'support' is just Virtue Signalling.

It seems a lot of people on these threads have no idea what virtue signalling is. Of course I support secure facilities for anyone who needs them. I cannot remember which thread it was here but I have already stated before that this will take time to achieve. Some buildings already have the structure in place. New buildings can of course accommodate that and the rest will hopefully look into possible changes when budget allows in a common sense approach.

Luminance

It seems a lot of people on these threads have no idea what virtue signalling is.

The public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue. Often implying that they are the only people demonstrating the moral correctness or social conscience.

The most guilty of VS are those who don’t recognise it in their posts.

VS is when people tell everyone how virtuous they are.

'I am happy to support anyone' is such a statement. 'I am happy to support by donating. . .', or 'I am happy to support by giving my time' are both VS too, but at least they do a bit more than declare the virtue of the signaller (assuming that the promises are followed through).

What do you think VS means, Luminance?

Virtue signalling is posting opinions that you do not share because that is what you find to be expressed most often so you believe it will gain you popularity. Virtue signalling is not expressing your opinion on a topic of discussion, where opinions are generally being given by everyone.

No, it's really not😀

Doodledog

No, it's really not😀

That can be a form of VS, but one's virtue can be signalled in many ways.

Must dash - off to feed the orphans in the next village.

I will continue to express what I think as it is relevant to the topic. If others believe that virtuous by their own definition then perhaps what I am saying is a positive thing.

^ Virtue Signalling: the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.^ OED

Virtue signalling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favour for certain political ideas or cultural happenings. Cambridge Dictionary

Virtue signalling is a superficial attempt by somebody to flaunt their self righteousness. Often condemning others to gain attention, validation or showboat. Urban Dictionary

How is it a positive thing to tell people that you will support everyone when (a) there is nothing you can do, and (b) the law applies as much to you as to anyone else? You are simply saying how ‘kind’ you are, and that’s really for others to judge

Anyway I just nipped back to collect the bag of cakes I baked for the food bank. Catch you later.

I support the idea of single secure spaces for anyone who needs them. I am quite in favour of that and if that is virtue signalling by your definition please accept this comment for your consideration.

And again . . .

Feminism is a wonderful thing. Single secure spaces please for anyone who needs them, especially women.

And again, indeed. 💁

Going back to the question you asked Carlotta upthread about why haven't men complained maybe they didn't mostly know?

I'm not at all surprised Wyllow if they look like the person in the post link at 08.40 today.

Yes it really struck me.

Couldn't possibly have known, if he walked into a ladies bathroom I think anyone would have a shock.

To be fair, I think the blokes in the gents might be a bit as well.

One of the reasons men don't complain about women in their spaces is because there is no risk, women also obviously don't for example impact mens sports in the way men in women's sport do.
Women who identify as men aren't routinely placed in mens prisons because the risk would be too high.

Galaxy

One of the reasons men don't complain about women in their spaces is because there is no risk, women also obviously don't for example impact mens sports in the way men in women's sport do.
Women who identify as men aren't routinely placed in mens prisons because the risk would be too high.

Agreed. And also that on the whole, women are vulnerable to men in a way that is not the case the other way round.

Men tend to be stronger, faster and more predatory than women. I appreciate that transmen are not discussed as often as transwomen, but there are reasons for that, and would add that if men see transmen in their spaces as a threat we would know about it by now. If they do see it that way, then it's not for women to sort it out.

I always find it rather difficult to talk of men as predatory, stronger and faster but the fact remains that I do not feel safe alone and out at night, neither do I feel safe in many public toilets. One in my local car park had to shut due to safety issues and it is rather appalling that we must even think about this still. When I was young I always thought these things would be less of a concern with progress. I remember reading on Facebook about women saying they would rather be alone in a forest with a bear than a man. It is rather disappointing these issues remain for all of us.

Public toilets are one of the most dangerous places for women and children. Imagine how distraught this mother and her 10 year old daughter must have been: a morning shopping in a Morrisons supermarket and the little girl needs the toilet. Whilst her mother was nearby, the child went in on her own. "Her attacker grabbed the terrified youngster by the face, shoved her into the cubicle and ordered her to remove her trousers." After that he filmed a 12-year-old over a toilet cubicle in Asda.
He evaded being caught because he was dressed up as a woman. After being convicted of the sexual assaults against the children, he went to live in a women's hostel. More breaches of his strict bail conditions meant that he was jailed. He was put in a women's jail. He's since changed his name again; this time he's Alyanna McKenna. He was previously Katie Dolatowski. Yup, scary places women's toilets when men dressed as women can go in.

There are also men that are not super strong and can fight of anyone. I know many that are careful where they go at night and men are 3 times more likely to be attacked by a stranger than a woman.