A friend at all costs ?

You are being taken advantage of, including the driving. However you are allowing it to happen, so you must speak up.

It’s difficult though, when this is how you’ve been doing it for years.

As your DH says, I think you must have a word about splitting bills, be upfront, say now you’re retired, money is tighter.

As for the driving, perhaps your car might not be so ‘available’, perhaps having its MOT or similar.

But if that means a taxi, more expense I suppose, even if shared,

Being the eldest, yorkshire and probably a bit of a control freak, I tend to dot the i's and cross the t's before any event. So for example I offered to take 3 women who no longer drive to Saltburn, but setting out my offer, which was that we should share the cost of fuel, but once there do our own thing and meet up at a convenient time to return. One person started to say Oh we could do such and such, which I immediately jumped on and said No that was not what I am offering. I am suggesting you have a day of freedom to do your own thing. She was a bit huffy but it has been a great success and have done it a couple of times, and we all understand the way it goes and they actually like having their own space now. So there are a couple of things in your situation that you might suggest.

1. use the new year as an easy way to present it as a new years resolution, where you can have a coffee with her and tell her now with the cost of living and being retired etc etc you need to curb your spending and so perhaps you may not manage to meet up so much, and that if you do it would need to be for a coffee rather than lunch sort of thing. Then go on to the cost of fuel and that you cant afford taxis etc and be ready to suggest a cafe that is on a bus route for you, where you could say that you will be fine with that as you have your bus pass etc. If she is any sort of friend at the least she will be apologetic for being so thoughtless , and she should be thanking you for all you have done so far and arrange to pick you up instead!!
2. The next time you meet again stick to a cafe on a bus route sort of thing, tell her you are thinking of not going to something you normally do so play bridge or golf or whatever, because it is now becoming too expensive for you to continue, and that can easily lead onto talking about other friends with similar ideas and how you all now meet up in the park for a walk or go swimming and have coffee together afterwards, as it is too expensive to carry on as you used to.

3; You might suggest if the distances are not too far that you could instead go to each others houses for lunch. That way you have more time to chat and catch up and again dont try at all to compete with each other about the food, but go for something simple like a jacket potato with some casserole that would be easy to prepare in advance and would be no problem if you were delayed.

I think all of these suggestions still show that you value the friendship enough to keep in touch , but on your terms. If she is a friend , she should be mortified that she has not realized what she is doing and has been very selfish and thoughtless to say the least. Doesnt say much for the other women in the group that have also been thoughtless to say the least. I think she should be making it up to you and that in the new year you can have a meeting on a more even keel.

If on the other hand she drops you, tries to excuse her behaviour, or backs away from the lunch idea without offering something else that shows more care then you will have your answer and she will be no great loss to you. At least that will have shown you a slightly different way to look at the way you are treated , and perhaps my upfront way of things is not very "british" the usual dont talk about money etc., but I have found that being straightforward and putting your cards on the table has been very beneficial. Friends have told me that when they are used to the idea it has been worth doing in other circumstances. You know those times when someone suggests something that you dont particularly want to do , but you agree , thinking they really want to and later you find that neither of you really enjoyed it but did it to suit the other person. At our age life is too short to waste it doing things that you dont want to do and being where you dont want to be. The pleasures of friendship are enjoying each others company and knowing someone for so long that you can tell them what matters, and be sure of an honest answer.

If you feel this is too direct you could simply tell her next time you meet up of a friend of yours who you think is being taken advantage of and ask her if you think you should tell your friend or keep quiet, but that you dont like to butt in, but that it is not a fair situation. However she does seem the sort of person who does not take hints even when given in heavy boots,!! We are all here for you and so you do not have to take any of our advice but it does quite help to read other peoples ideas and then that can percolate through your mind and you will actually come to the conclusion, possibly without even seeing her as to whether it is worth keeping in touch. Sometimes changes in situations can mean that friendships simply peter out, whatever happens between you two, you will have something to look back on , if you find yourself becoming in a similar situation, and be ready to stamp on any advantage taking. I wish you a clear decision, and that you will feel calm and satisfied by what ever you decide to do.

The other very very simple way I have used is to just think if she asked you to meet up on a particular day, and another friend did the same, which one would you choose to go to meet? You may actually already know what way you want to go and writing it down to us helps clarify it for you.

Whatever you decide will be right for you and then write it down somewhere and put that away, so that if you start to doubt yourself go back and look at your decision and the reasons for it to remind you of your reasoning and choice.

Ladyleftfieldlover

I continue to be amazed that people won’t/can’t speak out.

Me, too. Just ask for seperate bills, if she queries it explain.

I thought splitting the bill had long gone out of fashion and people always paid for their own meal only.

It's tricky sometimes. I've been going out for a meal with a group of friends for over 30 years . We are mindful that some have more money than others and we try and pick somewhere relatively cheap and cheerful. We always split the bill and if someone has a more expensive meal or more to drink they would chuck an extra £10 in or pay the tip. It's always worked fine and everyone seemed happy. A few years ago and new lady joined our little group. At first she was happy to go along with our system but lately she has been complaining about the cost and wanting to pay separately. It is a bit of a pain . How do you calculate how much of the shared wine she has drunk and how many pieces of garlic bread or whatever. The rest of us are still happy to split the bill and no one cares if someone had a dessert or an extra glass of wine. We think it all evens out in the end . Our 'new' friends financial status has not changed although I appreciate, everything is more expensive these days, especially eating out. It's becoming a problem.

It's becoming a problem.

anna7 Exactly the same applies to your situation. Just ask if she would like to have her own bill so she can just order what she wants (and pay her own tip). If she wants garlic bread and a drink she can order it. There are probably few places now where you can't have separate bills. The rest of you can carry on as normal.

I have a friend like this who is well aware what she is doing. She'll always have the most expensive dish on the menu, several expensive drinks and then we split the bill 50/50. I'm not much of a drinker myself. Although she's a long-term friend from my childhood I simply don't see her any more.

We’ve been out a few times with another couple, we order what we want, ours usually cost more, but they say split the bill… we’ve started to feel guilty and we’ve (hubby and I) said the next time we go out, we’ll ask for separate bills…then I won’t feel guilty having a double G&T… Hubby does do the driving though.

She is not your friend! Separate bills or no more outings!

My mother used to say about people with money. Who didn't pay their fair wack.

Well, that's how they get their money

Be being a cheapskate.

If she does earn 80k and is a good friend.Maybe she could treat you to meal every now and then.

Personally, l don't think she is.

I go about approx 3 times a week with two other friends, we all agree that we are "close" coffe and bun mostly, meal at least once a week.. we always pay for our own meals,, and mostly our coffees and buns, occasionally one or the other of us will pay for the coffee and buns for all.. . mostly we agree we pay our own bills... no problem... define what a friend is to you? could be simply thoughtlessness, yes! so you need to be honest with her and say,..

I have a similar but different problem. I occasionally meet a friend for lunch. I usually have a glass of wine but she doesn't. I don't drive but she does. However she always helps herself to my wine and eats the food from my plate. When it comes to payment she refuses to leave a tip (but I do). Even when a tip is included she queries it. I now no longer meet her. Problem solved.

You can get an app which allows you to work out what is what with food bills. I don’t drink alcohol and usually the only sugar free drinks are caffeinated so end up drinking water. My friends noticed that I was paying far more than I should so insisted that we either split the food equally and paid separately for our drinks or we just paid for what we had. The one friend(?) who complained she hated penny pinching was the most well off. I value my hard earned money and hate wasting it.

I'm another who will ask for separate bills. I rarely drink because usually I'm driving, and I've never been one to eat at the expensive end of the menu

Hi everyone and thanks for all the well thought out and helpful replies . Reading them has made me realise it’s not actually about the money - like someone said the odd 10/15 pounds is less important than a good friend . It’s more about the principle involved, and that someone would think it’s ok to keep doing that. Maybe this is more about me too . I’ve never really liked confrontation and am pretty easy going . But in my retirement I’ve met other new friends who seem more thoughtful and it’s making me reassess what sort of people I want to spend time with .

If it’s a regular thing then I’d say let’s each pay our own, if it’s about twice a year I’d leave it for now. I think once it starts to get in your head, you become very focused on it, and then before, during and after the meal your stressed and not fully enjoying or engaging in sharing the company and conversation. So if it’s got to that point, then definitely say something and then you can both relax and just enjoy each others company, I’m sure it will make a difference to your chats and time spent together. You only need to drum up the courage to say it the first time. I did it, and never looked back

Most eating places should be able to split your bills as they really are and charge accordingly. Try that next time because it all sounds very unfair.

Separate bills all the way.. waiting staff are well used to this nowadays and the tills are set up to accomodate the arrangement.
Make it clear this is the way forward... you only have to do it once to set expectations..

I think it really depends on how good a friend she is. If she is someone you value in other ways it's worth just making the effort to talk about it and maybe get separate bills so you can both do your own thing. If she really is a friend she won't mind.

It's perfectly possible that she is so used to doing whatever she wants at other times that she just doesn't give it a thought. Maybe she doesn't even know anything about your financial situation and assumes you would speak up if you had an issue. As someone who had more spare cash than most of my friends for the last 20 years of my working life I speak from experience.

Most resturants and pubs even if you order together you can go to the desk andpay your elements of the bill and the other person pays theirs. If your friend really dosnt understand decide to go to the toilet at the end of the meal and ask her to lok after your things. Pay your bit of the bill, come back to the table and then on the way out she can pay hers. Not the best way of getting this sorted but maymake the point.

If you enjoy her company and she is a friend of many years perhaps you can use some practical moves to re-establish your boundaries. You could just pay in cash as I used to do with a friend who was similar to yours or just choose something just as pricey. Or, the lovely English: Would you mind awfully if we paid our own bills on this occasion? Not much she could say to that. At my local WI group we have to all pay our bills separately down to the tip and drink.

EmilyHarburn

Most resturants and pubs even if you order together you can go to the desk andpay your elements of the bill and the other person pays theirs. If your friend really dosnt understand decide to go to the toilet at the end of the meal and ask her to lok after your things. Pay your bit of the bill, come back to the table and then on the way out she can pay hers. Not the best way of getting this sorted but maymake the point.

There was a recent spell where a group of us would go out after an activity for lunch out pretty often. I don't know if it was because the co-ordinator of this is pretty well-known to be a cadger and he loves living off other people if he can manage it - but we'd all do that and go up to till individually after our meals and tell them "I've had this/that/the other" and pay for what we had had personally.

I rather think Mr Cadger learnt in the end that he wasnt going to eat at our expense unless someone had specifically offered to pay his meal. Yep....we all got rather wise to him.

I think it is harder with longstanding friends who suddenly change than new friends, where you can just say things straight out the beginning My very longstanding friend 50 years plus on and off during the years as is normal and I see each other every week and go out for lunch regularly. Lately she lets me pay and say she will get some cash as she never carries any but then forgets. I remind her again and again but she never pays her debts. I even wrote it down for her as I wondered if there is early memory issues setting in, she paid me another debt in cash but never for the last 3 lunches. She is however very generous when she comes here on other weekly occasions, always bring a couple of nice cakes or a box of chocolate, but she does eat half herself. So they aren't actually a gift for me. If we don't finish them I would never take one when I am here on my own. That is the expectation. It is always me who orders when we go out and in the sort of establishments we visit you usually have to go to the counter to order and at times to pay. So I do not find it so easy to sort that out with separate bills, as she is rather unstable on her legs. She is definitely not short of money, in fact she is loaded so it is not that she cannot afford to pay up. She buys new really good clothes weekly and presents immaculately. Any ideas?

11 of us are going out for a meal tomorrow. Different friends from previous post. We have always had separate bills it’s never been a problem. I am being given a lift so will make sure I buy that friend what she wants to drink (3 of us being driven it’s up to them what they do) .

One of the friends offered to put me up for the night , I’ve accepted and will be taking her fizz and chocolates to say thank you .You do not take advantage of good friends .

win

I think it is harder with longstanding friends who suddenly change than new friends, where you can just say things straight out the beginning My very longstanding friend 50 years plus on and off during the years as is normal and I see each other every week and go out for lunch regularly. Lately she lets me pay and say she will get some cash as she never carries any but then forgets. I remind her again and again but she never pays her debts. I even wrote it down for her as I wondered if there is early memory issues setting in, she paid me another debt in cash but never for the last 3 lunches. She is however very generous when she comes here on other weekly occasions, always bring a couple of nice cakes or a box of chocolate, but she does eat half herself. So they aren't actually a gift for me. If we don't finish them I would never take one when I am here on my own. That is the expectation. It is always me who orders when we go out and in the sort of establishments we visit you usually have to go to the counter to order and at times to pay. So I do not find it so easy to sort that out with separate bills, as she is rather unstable on her legs. She is definitely not short of money, in fact she is loaded so it is not that she cannot afford to pay up. She buys new really good clothes weekly and presents immaculately. Any ideas?

Wouldnt the restaurant have one of those card machines they can just bring over? If where I'm going is more than just a cafe then I rather expect that they'll wave a card machine at me when it's time to pay. Card machines these days don't have to be all wired-up and so these days I just wait for them to come over with one of them in their hands to my table. Just tell them at the time you're both ordering that it will be separate bills at the end and, when you've both finished eating, wait for that card machine to be brought over to your table. No need for her to get up on her legs and walk to the counter.

If they don't have a card machine - they've had the hint they need to get one in (ie after you've asked for it in a casual "Of course you have one" tone of voice). If they say they havent yet then, at that point, you can then also ask for separate bills.

Presumably the counter is there and you both have had to walk past it to get in and will have to walk past it to get out again?